[Avodah] When Things Are Only MAYBE Assur

[Richard Wolpoe]

On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 10:16 AM, Micha Berger <micha at aishdas.org> wrote:

> On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 07:32:04PM +1000, Meir Rabi wrote:
> : It is noted by the Acharonim that when the Gemara discusses questions to
> do
> : with transfer of non-Kosher flavour, there is no suggestion that a
> : connoisseur be employed... Why not?
> : And perhaps we can ask ...                   how can we have a debate in
> the
> : Gemara about matters of verifiable fact?
>
> : It is therefore proposed that it is not absolutely known if the flavour
> has
> : or has not been transferred...
>
> I was bothered by the first question, and by the absurdity in claiming
> that Ashkenazim think the entire volume of the pot is of that which
> would give flavor to the substance in it. It is akin to your question
> about a kezayis being consercutibely dunked in 1 million pots. There
> can't possibly be a physical trace -- taste-giving or not -- that is
> sufficient to prohibit.
>
> But I fail to see how casting the question as a safeiq explains our not
> hiring a taster.
>
> My answer (discussed here ad nauseum, but the list demographics shifted
> since, so I hope it's worth reopening) was more radical and went in an
> entirely different direction. If it can't be about physical tastables,
> then let's not look at physics.
>
> The word "ta'am" has a meaning other than "taste". "Ta'amei hamitzvos"
> "Mai ta'ama?" etc... If you assume "nosein ta'am" refers to how people
> are expected to think of the object, all three questions evaporate. The
> question is no longer easily measurable, being an about not only
> psychology, but presumptions about preferred psychologies.
>
> Tir'u baTov!
> -Micha
>

b'nosein Ta'am as expalined by Talmud/Rambam/Tur/Mechabeir [see YD Tur 98
for quotes of Rava et. al.]  is subject to te'imas kefiela for issur, and
t'eimas koshein for Trumah. Therefore  I don't get this point.

ANYTHING that is boteil beshishm is a function of bnosein Ta'am but ther ar
issuirng taht are nto bateil beshishim.
Or as one of my issur v;heter studnets explains:Botteil beshishim is a PROXY
for noesin Ta'am.

Obviously there are cases where ta;am is NOT a factor [min bemino according
to the shach but not necesarily Rema et. al. who bassare Shema]  See
Shacc's commnet on Rema [SA 98:3? iirc] ]  re: bassarr shema azlainan where
the Sahch enumerates the cases of NOT noesin ta'am.

I also think this logic would knock out the Rabbeinu Tam Ta'am k'ikkar into
a different universe or dimension.
-- 
Kol Tuv / Best Regards,
RabbiRichWolpoe at Gmail.com
see: http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/
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