[Avodah] Education - was RAYK and the end of chol

[Richard Wolpoe]

On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 1:11 PM, <T613K at aol.com> wrote:

>
> >>>>>
> Yet in the Torah world Talmud learning for girls is considered a radical,
> politically motivated innovation, and we do not in practice see the same
> correlation between advanced Talmudic learning and dikduk bemitzvos among
> women that we see among men.
>


YOu have answerd your obserfation!  If ONLY radicals are permitted to learnr
Talmud then ONLY RADICALS  will draw Halcha from it

Once you mainstream more in-depth analyssi for nice BY girls then they will
have more dikduk in mitzvos

Let me tell you the other side.  Several BY girls ahve said to me that women
have ONLY 3 mitzvos hallah, niddah, & hadlakas haneiros!

So you might be right on one level but ofostering am ha'arztus is not much
of a trade off.  My friend's duaghter is a math major in Columbia Law.  She
doesn't GET Talmud she is clueless, But her sister DOES.  {the father is
moderately yeshivish BTW]

It was different when women were uneducated but if they can tear apart a
legal text the they can do Talmud , too.

What I have noticed with many [not all] women is that they chafe at Talmudic
style argumentation. for them perhaps the Shulchan Aruch makes more sense
-- 
Kol Tuv / Best Regards,
RabbiRichWolpoe at Gmail.com
see: http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/





> Often it is just the opposite (see Hollywood FL for one example) -- in the
> MO communities where women are more likely to have learned at least some
> Talmud, there is visibly LESS tznius among the women.  If anything, the
> correlation goes the other way -- across the spectrum, in the schools and
> communities where women do NOT learn Talmud, they are far MORE likely to
> cover their hair, not wear shorts or sleeveless dresses in public, and so
> on.  Learning Talmud does not seem to have the same positive effect on women
> in terms of increasing halachic observance and yiras Shamayim that it has on
> men.
>
> Having said all that I will add that my father did not hold that it is
> always absolutely assur for a woman to learn Talmud (certainly there have
> been individual great women in history who learned Gemara), but he did hold
> that this should not be done on a community-wide basis as a general part of
> women's education, as a matter both of halacha and of public policy.
>
> I would suggest that it is more important to encourage young women to MARRY
> talmidei chachamim than to BECOME talmidei chachamim.  Men have a strong
> tendency to live up to (or sometimes, sadly, down to) what is expected of
> them by the women in their lives.  This is why women have such a civilizing
> influence on society.
>
> *
> *
> *--Toby Katz
> =============
> *
>
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