[Avodah] Shaos Eretz Yisroel (EY zeiger) - offlist comments

[SBA]

Here are some comments that I recvd re the 'Shaos EY' post:

From: SBA [mailto:sba at sba2.com] 
..this issue has a small piece about something which would have puzzled
most who have spent time in Jerusalem and seen the notices/pashkevillin of
the walls - announcing the time for some function/protest/tefilla/drasha
giving 2 times; one "Lamed Shin Alef Yud" (leshaos Eretz Yisroel) and
another as  shaos "Europis".  Most have no idea what the LShEY means.

This article explains that under this system the Shekieh is always at 12
midnight, when the new cycle (day) begins. 
Thus - al pi Minhag Yerushalayim to bring in Shabbos 40 minutes before
Shkiyeh - candle-lighting time is always 11.20.

The writer also claims that many call it the "Arabisher zeiger". But this is
an error as it used to be known as the "Erevisher" (miloshon Erev = night.

He also writes that the British did their best to get rid of this system and
destroyed a number of public clocks that used it

=============

     In the Gra shul in Sha'arei Chesed, there are two clocks on the wall of
one of the rooms -- Sh'on EY and Eiropis.  The davening times for the
minyanin k'vuim for Shacharis are based on Eiropis; Mincha and Ma'ariv on
Sh'on EY.  It makes it easy to see if it's too late to say Tachanun (which
is _never_ said there even a minute after sh'kia).

     I just wonder who changes it daily and when; I've never seen it done.

     But as far as "erevisher" vs. "Arabisher," I don't believe them. If
there were any truth to it, it would have been called something like "shkia
zeiger."  I think it's like afikoman deriving from afiku man, or apotiki
form po t'hei ka'i: it's not its origin, it's why Chazal decided to keep the
goyishe term, because it could be given a Torah interpretation, but not that
the word was made up from the interpretation; the original source is
foreign.

==============
Hi! Shloma Boruch,
                   The first day I arrived in eretz yisroel in 1954 
I visited Reb Osher Zelig Margolis z"l in order to give over regards
from my father z"l who was a chaver of his.

 As we were talking he said oy vey! it's late it is
already 11.30 we have to go to daven mincha.

I said 11.30? by me it is 5.30

He said let me explain, the day, by yeeden starts at shkiah, so shkiah 
every day is at 12.00 pm, we move the clock every day by 2 minutes.
By goyim, where the day comes before the night, the day should
logically start the whole year round at 6.00 am,that is to say 6.00 am
should be 12.00 am and 6.00 pm the start of the night should be 12.00 pm.

Because in all truth let us take what we call 2.00 am, 2.00 in the morning,
is actually in the middle of the night. It would make as much sense as
calling our 2.00 pm which is the middle of the afternoon, the middle of the
night. Why then do the goyim call 12.00 am the start of day?

L'koved yoshka pundera their mamzer god whom they claim was born at 12.00
midnight. 

Said reb osher zelig, I'm not going to run my life according to 
the goyshe mishagaas  

======================

 RUBBISH When I was at Ponevez Yeshivah, a Yerushalmi Bochur, Yankl Seckbach
(he is still around amve"sh), who still remembered its use, told me that the
Etz Chaim Yeshiva switched to the European Zeiger in 1948.  The reason was
that most of the homes had already changed and it was being used as an
excuse for coming late.  The system (still used in Saudi Arabia!!!) has the
time cycle starting at daybreak and is adjusted weekly.  Thus in September
and March 6.00 o'clock is about noon.  In winter it is later and in summer
it is earlier.

It takes a couple of generations and lack of contact with bnei Yishmael to
get the whole thing distorted.

It seems to me that it is the old Sha'ot Zmaniot shifted on to the clock and
made Shavot.

Never believe newspapers.

=================

Arabish is not a mistake at all .it is called in many seforim "keri'as
hamugrab...."

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(This clock is still used side by side with "our"time  in the Tukyszinski
Yerushalmi luach used by many in Yerushalayim as a practical luach)