[Avodah] WTG

[Micha Berger]

On Thu, Apr 03, 2008 at 04:17pm EST, Stadlan, R Noam wrote:
: If a posek decides that the motivation of a shoel is wrong, he can decide
: all the halachic issues to the side of denying the shoel permission to do
: the act.  The decision regarding the motivation can be a result of
: historical circumstances, and those circumstances can change.  Motivations
: can change.  If the motivation was thought to be acceptable, and perhaps
: even admirable, the halachic balance can change.  Rav Gil Student, in his
: review of Rav Herschel Schachter's view's on WTG basically admits that RHS
: consistently rules l'chumra on all the issues precisely because RHS was
: against the WTG....

There are therefore two steps here:

1- RHS decided that WTGs defied some aggadic value and pasqened
accordingly. That's part of the mechanics of pesaq. Deciding otherwise
about the aggadic values or whether they are being violated is simply
pasqening differently. The fact that the motive is aggadic doesn't make
it less part of the halachic process.

2- You seem to say that it's possible the realia changed, and therefore
even if RHS's pesaq was valid, it doesn't apply to today's reality.
While this could be possible with RYBS's dislike for WTG's, it's much
harder to say when the speaker is alive and hasn't said so himself.

...
: In other words, RHS decided that WTG was wrong, and ruled accordingly on the
: halachic issues in question.  The obvious flip side is that if one thought
: that WTG was good, one could also rule accordingly on the halachic issues.

Yes, if there is grounds for a machloqes, one is permitted to have a
machloqes. Reduced to these terms, it's tautological.

The question is whether WTG can be determined to be a net good from the
Torah's perspective.

And thus RRWolpoe's notion that one of the greatest things C lacks in
their decisionmaking is yir'as Shamayim has some truth. When motivated
to find what I find good rather than what Hashem finds good, the system
is badly abused. (Although there are more blatant problems in C legal
process.)

Since important decisions involve conflicting values, it's not the
reality of the values that's at issue nearly as often as have a feel for
the magnitude of each.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             It is harder to eat the day before Yom Kippur
micha at aishdas.org        with the proper intent than to fast on Yom
http://www.aishdas.org   Kippur with that intent.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                       - Rabbi Israel Salanter