[Avodah] Ashkenazim and Sephardim

[Richard Wolpoe]

On Dec 30, 2007 7:25 PM, Micha Berger <micha at aishdas.org> wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 27, 2007 at 10:35:00PM -0500, Richard Wolpoe wrote:
> : Micha:
> :> The notion that Sepharadim come almost entirely from Bavel whereas
> :> Ashkenazim are primarily from EY, but a mix of both, is from Prof Agus.
> :> Search Avodah's archives for the name "Agus", this has been discussed
> :> repeatedly in the past.
>
> : This is hardly Agus's notion alone. Most of the major litrugicists
> subscribe
> : to it
> ...
>
> I wrote the above under the impression that it was distinctly Prof
> Agus's notion to take this notion and extend it beyond liturgy into a
> discussion of the role of Bavli in Ashkenaz vs its role in Sepharad and
> the evolution of its acceptance in a special role in halachic development
> even in Ashkenaz.
>
> Tir'u baTov!
> -Micha
>
> --
> Micha Berger
>

Yes I am modeh Agus did extend it quite a bit.  Just that the parameters
already went beyond liturgy by the time of Rabbeinu Tam and Or Zarua.

Think of this.  Midrash Rabbah is primarily from EY. Anytime a Minhag is
rooted in Midrash Rabba it COULD represent an example of the  EY v.s Bavel
dichotomy [iow it is not restricted to Yersuhalmi per se either].

What I am saying is that there have been several generalizations on this
thread that are mostly true but somewhat mis-leading.

Agus, Ta Sehma et. al. never  make this a Yerushalmi  Bavli dichotomy,
rather they make it a EY vs. Bavel dichotomy and that encompasses many other
texts.

Similarly this is not limited to liturgy.  Just that with the liturgy it is
so blatant you don't need a PhD to figure out the pattern.

But it is also true that saying Minhag Ashkenaz = Minhag EY is not 100%
true.  This is a trend not an absolute.  Yekum Purkan illustrates an
exception.

Also the Ashkenaz Amidah had 19 brachos whilst Kallir had 18 [viz.  Binyan
and tzemach were merged to preserve literally 18 even AFTER laminnim]

-- 
Kol Tuv / Best Regards,
RabbiRichWolpoe at Gmail.com
see: http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/
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