[Avodah] Fwd: Lashon Hara about non-Jews

[Michael Makovi]

>>I would personally say that it seems like the kind of loophole in a
>> d'oraita
>>that is often plugged by a d'rabanan.

> Source?

My supposition. No source.

>>Perhaps because in a normal situation, we're a nation living in our own
>>land, and the only non-Jews around are gerei toshav, which I'm not sure, but
>>going to assume, about whom it is forbidden to speak lashon hara <<

> He isn't included in Amecha or Amisecha in Mitzvos, so it isn't forbidden.

That's my point. If he's a ger toshav, we have to love him. But if
he's not a ger toshav, but rather just a stam gentile in chutz
la'aretz, we have no command to love him, but I'm arguing it is a
technicality of the law. Surely God wants us to love them and not
speak LH, I'm figuring. After all, Avot 3:something says beloved is
man, Bereshit 1:x and 2:x say tzelem elokim, etc. Sanhedrin 4:x says
whoever saves nefesh achat m'bnei *adam*, etc.

> >> (I do know
> that it is a command to love them - Mesechet Gerim chapter 3 says "love the
> ger" includes the ger toshav). <<
>
> I didn't see it there.

It asks, what pasuk pertains to a ger toshav? It answers, Vayikra
something. That pasuk is one of the "love the ger" pesukim. There's
also Vayikra 25:35 (I think), about lending money, and it refers to
the ger toshav (according to Rashi) as "your brother".

>>And perhaps a Jew who speaks lashon hara of a gentile, we can say the
>>same
>>thing about a Jew who takes advantage of a loophole in a monetary matter -
>>G-d knows how to settle the score. You didn't break the law per se, but so
>>what? It's like the guy who went psak-shopping for the heter, and so when he
>>got to Olam haBa, he was given a derelict shack - "according to some
>>opinions, this IS olam haba".

>>Ain HaNidon Domeh LaRaayah. There isn't one Posek who says its forbidden to
>>speak LH about non-Jews.

I know. I never said there was a poske - that's my entire point. We
ARE forbidden (I think) to speak lashon hara about a ger toshav (since
we have to love him), and so I'm saying, LH about a stam gentile is
simply not forbidden, due to a technicality. But one cannot read
Bereshit 1 and 2 and still think it is okay to speak LH about a
gentile, strictly forbidden or not.

True, there's no source. One could just as well argue that the
permission to avoid trumah and maaser by taking your produce through
the window, is NOT a technicality, and is rather a perfectly good
thing that Hashem wants you to do. I can't prove you wrong on that.
But I still personally think it is a technicality that God doesn't
want you to do, to take it through your window.

And there's the thing about a person who shadily takes advantage of
monetary loopholes, that God will requite him in His own way. I
figure, He'll do the same thing to a person who disregards the tzelem
elokim of a gentile and speaks LH with abandon. And check Sforno on
Shemot 19:15-16 - all men are beloved to God, and the difference
between Jew and gentile is one of degree not kind.

Mikha'el Makovi