[Avodah] Having a boyfriend equivalent to being married?

[Micha Berger]

On Fri, December 14, 2007 1:12 pm, R Zev Sero wrote:
: It seems to me that RYBS would have difficulty explaining why, at
: least among USAn goyim, the majority of divorces are initiated by the
: wife.  According to him this should be quite rare, and certainly far
: from a majority.

It seems to me that RYBS isn't denying the majority, he is denying
that chazaqah is a simple variation of the theme of ruba deleisa
leqaman. And thus he disproves it not with statistics, but a pasuq. To
whatever extent that's peshat in the pasuq aside; I'm discussing the
implied meaning of chazaqah, not the specific treatment of tav
lemeisiv.

To more clearly phrase what I tried to express last time, RYBS seems
to be saying:

A chazaqah about human nature is on an existential, not a
psychological level. I don't know what that means, but certainly one
can distinguish between what one thinks one wants, and what one
actually wants. A person can refuse to admit to herself that she
really doesn't want to be alone, and out of a desire to see herself as
independent, frustrates her own desires. This isn't quite what he
means, as I'm making a distinction more like desire and consciousness
of desire, unconscious vs conscious; and both of those are on the
psychological level.

To put the above another way, the chazaqah may be saying that we
presume the law of human nature is followed through upon unless proven
otherwise EVEN IF the law of human nature is followed through upon in
less than half of all cases. It's simply another law of birur, similar
in function rov.

None of which would apply to our original case, where there are
knowns, and therefore no need to relay on dinei birur. Sheiv Shemaatsa
6:22 rules out use of a chazaqah disvara in cases where there are
eidim, even if the matter is still in doubt. (Unlike a chazaqah
demei'ikarah.)

:> Witnesses to yichud? If they're "a couple", it's quite likely.

: Really?  Since your wedding, how many people do you suppose could
: testify that they'd seen you and your wife isolated together for
: 8 consecutive minutes?  In the ordinary course of events that's
: not something people usually see.

Actually, ROY has a teshuvah which would spell disaster for the
children of the "tefillin dating" crowd, bedavka because of the issue
we are discussing. Hopefully RtCL or RtSB (just to name our two most
plurific S contributors, both women and both S by marriage, hmm...)
has a mar'eh maqom.

SheTir'u baTov!
-micha

-- 
Micha Berger             One who kills his inclination is as though he
micha at aishdas.org        brought an offering. But to bring an offering,
http://www.aishdas.org   you must know where to slaughter and what
Fax: (270) 514-1507      parts to offer.        - R' Simcha Zissel Ziv