[Avodah] Fables and Lies

[Micha Berger]

On Tue, Dec 04, 2007 at 11:59:44AM -0500, Rich, Joel wrote:
:> Chazal used the story for a mashal. The question of whether the mashal
:> happened to also be what happened to occur or not isn't one that they
:> would have ever asked. Therefore, some could be historical, some not
:> -- it's not important and no one kept track. Even caring which is which
:> places you in a different perspective WRT the narrative than intended by
:> Chazal.

: Agree, as long as we keep in mind that the story could have been
: intended as  a memory device rather than a proof for the concept
: (because otherwise we have the law of unintended consequences issue -
: when someone looks at the same story and "proves" something else from
: it).  I find in some cases it is viewed as a source proof text instead.

In RSRH's CW III, a symbol is described as the crossroads of heart and
mind. We can contemplate a symbol to give a visualization and emotion
we intellectually comprehent. We can also use the symbol as a way to
reason about something that we can feel the broad strokes of, by giving
us a model to burther explore.

That's a far more powerful and rich concept than calling it a mnemonic.

On Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 11:54:57PM +0200, Ilana Sober wrote:
: RnTK:
:: The word myth simply is never used to describe straightforward history.

: Exactly. That's why I think it is a useful word in conveying the idea
: that the events recounted in the Torah are not intended to be merely
: history, but something much more important.

As I wrote (and quoted above), I think the second you even ask the
question of historicity you are relating to the naarative in a way
different than Chazal's intent. It's entirely the mashal, and whether
the nimshal was drawn from history or not was never explored, asked
or cared about. The question is wrong, not just a particular answer
to it.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             A person must be very patient
micha at aishdas.org        even with himself.
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