[Avodah] Fables and Lies

[Shoshana L. Boublil]

> From: "kennethgmiller at juno.com" <kennethgmiller at juno.com>
> Subject: [Avodah] Fables and Lies

> In the thread "proofs of G-d", we were discussing the scenario that some 
> gedolim posit a linkage, that a specific tragedy was caused by a specific 
> failing, and that they do this in order to inspire people to do teshuva, 
> even though those gedolim are not neviim, and cannot say for a *fact* that 
> this failing caused that tragedy.
=============
Okay, I don't have the sources in front of me, so any mistakes are mine.

While listening to a shiur by Rav Shabtai Sabbato on Berachot, this topic 
came up.  From what I understood, he described this issue as being a choice 
of people who reach a certain high level of whether or not every Tzara that 
happens to them would indeed be for a specific cause, intended to bring 
them through a new and higher step in their Torah education, or not.

I will continue below:

>> The liturgical accounts of the martyrdom were not meant as
>> historical records, but as dramatic accounts of the story, in
>> order to evoke feelings of loss and repentance on the part of
>> the congregation.

Forgive me, but I think that part of growing up, is learning truth from 
fable, history from tales intended to teach a point etc.  While as a child I 
enjoyed Kol Aggadot Yisrael and other similar collections of books, I never 
took the stories of the Satan speaking to people literally.  I don't think 
that these stories were intended to be taken so.  We don't believe in a 
divided power, there is only one Hashem.  What exactly does Satan represent 
is an issue for other posts (I think it was discussed in the past).

The poem Ayleh Ezke'rah is indeed one of the poignant points of the tefilla. 
It's hard to use the term "love" with regard to such a tale of loss and 
heartbreak, but every time I read it, it touches my heart.  It never dawned 
on me to take the "and next" as a literal "the next day" or even "the next 
month" or anything similar.  I also don't think anyone literally saw the 
letters rising above the flames, but I can understand what the poet was 
trying to convey.  I am very sorry to hear that some people are not taught 
from childhood to differentiate between the various types of Aggada.

What worries me more is that sometimes, it is essential for the 
understanding of a G'mara to know the historic order of Tanna'im and 
Amora'im mentioned in the sugiya, and not knowing could damage the study of 
the G'mara.

> My heart is still not fully healed from the pain of this disillusionment. 
> And I apologize if this post has disillusioned any others. But I think 
> that it is very relevant to the question which was asked in the previous 
> thread. And given RBW's comment, I figured it might be worthwhile to spin 
> it off into a new thread.
>
> To repeat his question:
>> the people who are motivated to repent will basing their avodat
>> Hashem based on a fable, and maybe even on a lie. Do we really
>> want that?

NO. We don't.  But disasters do cause people to ask why, and a generalized 
call for repentance is never out of place, and even a more pointed reminder 
of problems found in a community is also possible.  But without Nevi'im, we 
don't "KNOW" why something happened.  I know that there are various opinions 
on the issue of "mikreh" vs. "bechira" (as in everything is guided), but 
saying that a disaster is a reminder is okay.  Saying that xxxx caused the 
disaster is indeed problematic, IMHO.

Shoshana L. Boublil