[Avodah] Apikores?

[Micha Berger]

On Sun, Nov 25, 2007 at 08:59:54AM +0200, Marty Bluke wrote:
: When the brothers are planning on killing Yosef, Reuven saves him by
: suggesting throwing him into the pit. The mefarshim ask what did
: Reuven accomplish, the pit was very dangerous (full of snakes, etc.),
: even life threatening. The Or Hachaim and the Alshich both answer as
: follows. A person has bechira chofshis and therefore the brothers
: could kill Yosef even if he was not supposed to die. However, animals
: since they have no bechira chofshis they cannot kill someone if he is
: not supposed to die. In other words, bechira trumps hashgocha pratis.

The SR in Vayo'el Moshe quotes the OhC, and says the4 OhC is based on
the Zohar. (As did the Netziv, as already noted by RMBluke.)

The SR comments on the machaneh henish'ar of last week's parashah that
HQBH always gives us an opportunity to save ourselves. The problem
(leshitaso) is that rather than choosing the route He offered us, we
chose Zionism. And therefore the SR has to show that bechirah can choose
things that HP would not have.

I have a problem with HP and bechirah, in part because one or two of the
issues I raised before Shabbos. With contemporary notions of the nature
of nature, what's the line between teva and neis nistar? Is there one?

HP isn't identical to sechar va'onesh; IOW, is it not personalized
providence when someone gets help he doesn't deserve? In which case,
when HQBH chooses to let people feel the consequences of our decisions,
is that HP or not? After all, He wants us to be autonomous.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

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