[Avodah] How much Conformity to local Nusach/Mihag is required for Shatz and for the Private Worshiper?

[Micha Berger]

On Tue, Oct 02, 2007 at 05:30:37PM -0400, Richard Wolpoe wrote:
: How much Conformity to local Nusach/Mihag is required for Shatz and for the
: Private Worshipper? What are the parameters?  Kudos to [RMPoppers]
: for a long off-list discussion that stimluated my brain in this direction?

: Illustrations:
: Shatz:
:    1. Can he say TiskaBAL instead of TiskaBEIL
...
:    8. Geshem/Gashem?

: Private Worshiper:
...
:    5. If Artscroll has Zecher rav tuvehca, can you say Zeicher rav
:    Tuvecha?
:    6. May one shake the lulav in a differnt sequence than the tzibbur
...

Real world: How many people notice that he said one or the other?
How many shuls simply have a blanket "we say what's in the ArtScroll",
without really knowing whether it has a patach or a tzeirei, or whether
"umorid hageshem" or "gashem"?

RRW and RMP come from a world where shuls have hakpadah about such
details. That's rare. In most shuls today, they wouldn't notice if you
ended Qedushah with "ushvachakha E-lokeinu mipinu lo yamush" rather than
"veshivchakha".

And that's the US. Most Israeli minyanim have very little standardization
between chazanim.

I therefore find it hard to relate to the question. How can one talk
about violating minhagim most shuls don't bother setting one?


This is similar to the idea I was trying to convey when I lamented about
the large number of people who aspire to say Berikh Shemei but are already
unwinding for leining (or their bein gavra legavra chat). People simply
don't care.

You're asking whether one's silence would be noticable enough to be
perishah min hatzibur. I look around the shul and don't see enough
conformity for one person's silence to stand out much.


The halakhah lemaaseh question is whether a minyan is required to be that
consistent in nusakh; not whether one may violate a level on consistency
most shuls (outside of Bennet Ave) don't have.

This is lamentable. To my mind, primarily because it means the rav never
taught the mispallelim peirush hamilim and what difference one vs the
other makes. People with a greater feeling for minhag avos would object
for more primary reasons.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Like a bird, man can reach undreamed-of
micha at aishdas.org        heights as long as he works his wings.
http://www.aishdas.org   But if he relaxes them for but one minute,
Fax: (270) 514-1507      he plummets downward.   - Rav Yisrael Salanter