[Avodah] How much Conformity to local Nusach/Mihag is required for Shatz and for the Private Worshiper?

[Ken Bloom]

On Tue, 2 Oct 2007 17:30:37 -0400
"Richard Wolpoe" <rabbirichwolpoe at gmail.com> wrote:

> How much Conformity to local Nusach/Mihag is required for Shatz and
> for the Private Worshipper? What are the parameters?  Kudos to Mr.
> Michale Opoers for a long off-list discussion that stimluated my
> brain in this direction?
> 
> Illustrations:
> Shatz:
> 
>    1. Can he say TiskaBAL instead of TiskaBEIL
>    2. Is the Shatz qrequired to conform whilst saying things silently
>    1. Is a Shatz required to daven the minhag of the shul during his
>       PIRVATE AMIDAH or his minhag Avos?
>       2. Does a Shatz have to say Barcuh Hashem or V'shamru at Arvis
>       or may he wait silently until the tzibbur finished and then
> proceed. 3. Can you say Morid Hatal in a congregation that normally
> omits it? [fwiw when I was at ner israel a rebbe made that Shatz go
> back to ata gibbor and to repeat it w/o morid hatal!]

R' Ovadia does not allow a sepharadi to serve as the shaliach tzibbur
at an ashkenazi shul, because l'chatchilah a sepharadi should not daven
nusach ashkenaz because the sepharadi nusach is kabbalistically
superior. (For more information see Yalkut Yosef siman 101, which
traces the sources of all of these issues)

Nevertheless, some of these issues (or analagous issues) may still be
relevant within sepharadi shuls with different versions of the nusach.
(E.g. syrian versus turkish versus spanish/portugese versus
middle-eastern). I haven't seen a sepharadi shul that's so makpid about
a single version of the nusach that every shaliach tzibbur davens
precisely the same version of the nusach. Then again, I haven't spent
enough time around a sepharadi community that was large enough that its
shul's constituency had an overwhelming majority from a specific
country.

>    4. At a Nusach Ashk. Minyan 2 reciters of kaddish Yasom shouted out
>    v'yatzmach - is that ok?

R' Ovadia rules that sepharadim saying kaddish need to say kaddish in
their nusach, regardless of the shul. That means saying v'yatzmach in
an ashkenazi shul. He permits sepharadim to shorten y'hei shlama... so
as to remain synchronized with ashkenazim who are also saying kaddish.

[I've omitted the other questions, becuase I don't have YY to consult
right now, and am citing sources from memory, but I'd be pretty certain
that all of these issues are addressed there in the appropriate places.]

> Private Worshiper:
> 
>    1. Can a private person say kesser yitnu while the tzibbur says
>    na'arizcha?

R' Ovadia rules that this is what a sepharadi should do. Likewise with
na'aritzach (edot hamizrach) versus n'kadesh et shimcha (nusach
ashkenaz) (Yalkut Yosef 101)

>    2. Does a private person have to articulate nekadesh bekolram or
> may he ramain silent in a shul that says it out loud?
>    3. What about K''vodo or az bekol?

These are related to question 1.

Another issue: must sepharadim stand during kaddish at an askhenazi
shul. YY answers that yes, they must, even though they may sit at a
sepharadi shul.

May ashkenazim sit during kaddish at a sepharadi shul? I'd love to know
the answer.

--Ken

-- 
Ken Bloom. PhD candidate. Linguistic Cognition Laboratory.
Department of Computer Science. Illinois Institute of Technology.
http://www.iit.edu/~kbloom1/
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avodah-aishdas.org/attachments/20071002/a220b482/attachment-0002.pgp>