[Avodah] Q on qinyanei m'shichah o hagbahah re 29Dec2007 RYReisman shiur

[Michael Poppers]

In a shiur which dealt with many issues related to fishing, one issue was
whether someone could go fishing in an area where someone else had
previously laid a baited trap for [the same type of] fish.  As per RYR
(AIUH), Rabbeinu Meir (father of Rabbeinu Tam) held that there was an issue
of hasagas g'vul, while Rabbeinu Tam didn't see any problem, as fish are
hefqeir, but the Q'tzos haChoshen tried to demonstrate that the issue was
actual g'zeilah because an animal can be acquired via [g'ram] m'shichah or
hagbahah by attracting it to food.  What bothered me about the paradigm
cases of the Q'tzos was that the animal in question (e.g. re hagbahah, an
elephant) was visible both to the maqneh and to others who theoretically
could be qoneh it -- fish in a body of water (or, for that matter, the
baited trap of the previous fisherman) may not be visible, so how is
fisherman Z'vulun supposed to know that someone else is already being qoneh
the object of Z'vulun's activities?  Moreover, even if we assume that man
has authority over land (even, say, a sea-like r'shus, at least l'gabei
hilchos Shabbos, like a desert) such that he can be qoneh animals neither
he nor others can currently see, does this apply to the seas or to the
heavens?  Thanks.

Gut Voch and all the best from
--Michael Poppers via RIM pager
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