[Avodah] Having a boyfriend equivalent to being married?

[Josh E.]

Zev Sero wrote: 
>The chazakah would have to apply to both.  Both would
>have had to be acting leshem kiddushin.  How likely
>is that, in our situation?

This seems to be asking about what their intentions
were. But their intentions are irrelevant in the face
of a chazakah..

>And then there's still the question of witnesses. 
>AIUI the witnesses are supplied by their living
>together openly and notoriously, which
>makes everyone who knows them a witness.  But this
>depends on their social circle being not only kosher
>eidim, but also themselves assuming that since "ein
>adam..." the couple must have been married.

Why does it matter what the eidim assume? IF the
chazakah is operational, then as long as they are
witnesses to the actual biah (or, I suppose, to a
yichud that is equivalent to witnessing biah?), the
chazakah should apply. Just like we don't take into
account the couple's intentions, we shouldn't take the
eidim's assumptions into account either. Even if the
eidim think it was biah zenut, the chazakah should
hold.

Furthermore, why do we require that they be living
together openly and notoriously? What if there were
eidim who simply witnessed them being in a yichud
setting where there was sufficient time for relations.
Again, the chazakah should apply in this case too.

Josh


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