[Avodah] proofs of G-d

[Eli Turkel]

<<You have brought no evidence that the sources I have cited are limited
to an individual blaming himself for his own suffering. Furthermore if
you want to claim that only a prophet can say such a thing than you need
to justify why chazal make such statements all over Shas e.g.,  why was
the Temple destroyed. In addition it seems to be a common practice
throught the ages - as you yourself note with disapproval.>>

First with regard to RYBS I strongly suggest reading "Out of the Whirlwind".
He in fact strongly condemns those who attribute the Holocaust to sins
of the people
as trivializing the actions of the Nazis. More basically finite man
has no hope of
understanding an infinite G-d and his ways. Hence, man can only use tragedy to
improve his future but can never understand it.

Chazal has ruach hakodesh which modern day gedolim do not have. However, even in
Shas various reasons are given for the destruction of the second
Temple. It is interesting
that in the story of Kamtza and Bar Kamtza the gemara never identifies
the "guilty"
parties. In a discussion in our shul various people pointed to
virtuallly everyone in the
story including the chachamim to did not protest the shame of bar
kamtza and also those
that did not oppose Zercharya and so did not bring the king's korban.

We know that many great tzaddikim died at an early age eg the Ari-zal.
No one would claim
that is because of their sins. Even the rishonim were bothered by the
death of the great
rabbis in the first crusade (see the description in the Kinnot).
hence, it was decided that
they died for the sins of others. Given that philosophy one can not
tell who dies for his
own sins and who dies for the sins of others and for many other reasons.

There is a story of a favorite talmid of the Ramban who died early.
Before his death the Ramban
requested that he appear in a dream and explain why he died early. He
did indeed appear
in a dream to the Ramban but merely said that once one is in heaven
everything becomes clear.

It has become "fashionable" in some circles whenever a tragedy happens
to place the blame on others. As Wolpoe says the thrust of the Rambam
is to use tragedy to blame oneself and do teshuva
and not to point fingers at others.
Recently ROY claimed that IDF soldiers who die it is because of their
sins. After a large hue
was raised he talked about the importance of the IDF and its soldiers
but never really retracted.
How he knows G-d's plans I don't understand? I truly do not believe
that various yeshiva
students who die early are secret sinners while those who live to 100
are saints.

As I have questioned before statistics show that people today
(including Jews) live a lot longer.
In the middle ages people lived until about 40-50 while today it is
70-80. Does anyone
claim that we are more righteous than the Ramah or his contemporaries?


-- 
Eli Turkel