[Avodah] proofs of G-d

[Daniel Eidensohn]

R' Richard Wolpoe wrote:
> On Nov 20, 2007 1:31 PM, Daniel Eidensohn <yadmoshe at 012.net.il 
> <mailto:yadmoshe at 012.net.il>> wrote:
>
>
>     You are creating an false dichotomy between those who claim to
>     know the
>     reason for a calamity and those who don't make such claims or have
>     doubts about their assertions. There is in fact a religious obligation
>     to attribute suffering to specific shortcomings - as noted in the
>     sources below.  In other words it is a recognized technique for
>     teshuva
>     to make causal links between suffering and sin. The question is
>     whether
>     the link is correct and the degree that people feel confident that
>     they
>     have identified the causal relationship. In addition how much
>     uncertainty should a leader admit for the technique to work.
>
>  
> WADR it is one thing to attribute one's Own sufferings to one's own sin.
> It is quite another to attribute suffering to YENNEM"s sin.  The 
> holocaust was due to the shortcoming of those xxx [fill in the blank]  
> Some Ashkenazim blamed Sephardim for their lifestyle as contributing 
> to the geirush and then had to eat humble pie when tach vatat occured.
>
> A navi can do this of course. Because  they say the Word of Hashem. 
> Other people are engaging in a practice tantamount to SAYANG they have 
> actually HEARD the WORD.  This is imho humbris plain and simple, it 
> actaully borders on claiming a definite knowledge of what God is saying. 
>
You have brought no evidence that the sources I have cited are limited 
to an individual blaming himself for his own suffering. Furthermore if 
you want to claim that only a prophet can say such a thing than you need 
to justify why chazal make such statements all over Shas e.g.,  why was 
the Temple destroyed. In addition it seems to be a common practice 
throught the ages - as you yourself note with disapproval.

Daniel Eidensohn