[Avodah] skeptics

[Micha Berger]

Three questions:
1- CAN Judaism be proven
2- IS one's religious stance usually the product of proof
3- Should it be

CAN:
I have a number of blog entries in which I argue (following the Kuzari
over the Moreh) that the only real proof religion can have is the
direct experience of living according to it
<http://www.aishdas.org/asp/category/faith-and-proof>. Philosophical
argument is never sounder than the combined weaknesses of all its
postulates, which ultimately means is the product of numerous
experiences. Anything as complex as religion will therefore be more a
product of the person's willingness to accept the proof than the proof
itself. It simply can't be objectively judged.

Kuzari 1:13 (tr Hirschfeld, 1905):
"The Rabbi: That which thou dost express is religion based on
speculation and system, the research of thought, but open to many
doubts. Now ask the philosophers, and thou wilt find that they do not
agree on one action or one principle, since some doctrines can be
established by arguments, which are only partially satisfactory, and
still much less capable of being proved."

DOES:
I do not believe religion actually lemaaseh gets founded on
philosophical argument. How many people become frum because of a great
lecture? How many do so because of the experience of Shabbos?

SHOULD:
R' Dr Sholom Carmy once wrote on Avodah:
> The people who keep insisting that it's necessary to prove things
> about G-d, including His existence, seem to take it for granted that
> devising these proofs is identical with knowing G-d.
> Now if I know a human being personally the last thing I’d do, except
> as a purely intellectual exercise, is prove his or her existence.

IOW: No, no, and no. Philosophy has a role (a big role, for some of
us) adding detail and richness to belief. But not in establishing it.

Qobetz Shiurim, for example, is an explanation for maaminim. It
doesn't include proofs for the skeptic. The book is useless to the
skeptic; except as an example of the beauty he could experience in
limud haTorah. (But frankly some nice Brisker lomdus might do better.)

What I believe does happen and does motivate change is experiencing
the shock of seeing something argued that until then you thought was
unarguable. Not the intellectual exercise directly, but the experience
of going through the exercise and the resulting emotional shock.

I think this is why R Jonathan Rosenblum found someone whose data
seems to be justifying the following claim (taken from
<http://www.cross-currents.com/archives/2007/10/24/its-not-what-the-neighbours-say/>):
> One of those phenomena would be disaffected youth. How widespread is
> the problem? What are its causes? Is it possible to identify youth
> who might be at risk in coming years at a young age, and what types
> of early intervention might be effective?...
> This past week I finally found someone who has been studying all
> these issues and collecting hard data in order to create effective
> early intervention programs. In the course of our long conversation,
> he observed that the "drop-out" rates in so-called mixed communities,
> like Petach Tikva, Rechovot, and Haifa, are dramatically lower than
> in all chareidi communities, like Kiryat Sefer, Beitar, Elad, and
> Bnei Brak.

A risk of being isolated is the shock of news of the outside world
when it eventually does come in. Someone for whom "Who Wrote the
Bible" wasn't the first they heard of Document Hypothesis wouldn't be
too impressed with the book. Someone for whom it raises new questions
and proceeds to answer them... r"l. It's not the quality of the issue,
it's being broadsided that shapes the response. (It might also be
irritation at feeling "protected" rather than treated as an adult...
Depends on the individual poseiach beshe'eilah.)

SheTir'u baTov!
-micha

-- 
Micha Berger             One who kills his inclination is as though he
micha at aishdas.org        brought an offering. But to bring an offering,
http://www.aishdas.org   you must know where to slaughter and what
Fax: (270) 514-1507      parts to offer.        - R' Simcha Zissel Ziv