[Avodah] lifnei iver/kanaus

[Michael Kopinsky]

On 10/11/07, Celejar <celejar at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 07:00:15 -0400
> Micha Berger <micha at aishdas.org> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, Oct 01, 2007 at 01:10:22AM -0400, Richard Wolpoe wrote:
> > : The Talmud/SA tells us that we may not hit a child past a certain age
> [15
> > : iirc] because he might hit you back and you would thereby trangress
> lifnei
> > : iver...on an issur of misas beis din no less.
> >
> > Might, not probably.
> >
> > Think of the gezeirah against blowing shofar on Shabbos. Takanos do not
> > require a very high threshold of probability.
>
> I see no indication in the Gemara (MK 17a) or SA that this is a takanah
> or gezeira; the gemara's language is that "he has violated lifnei
> i'ver".


I'm WAAAAY behind on Avodah, but....

The Gemara at the end of Eizehu Neshech (BM 75b) says:

"Amar Rav yehuda amar Rav: Kol mi sheyesh lo ma'os umalveh osan shelo b'edim
oveir mishum v'lifnei iver lo sitein michsol, v'reish lakish omer gorem
klalah l'atzmo."  In this case, the gemara also refers to it as lifnei iver,
even though there is clearly no transgression taking place except in the
unlikely circumstance that the loveh is kofeir.  This is most definitely not
an issur of lifnei iveir.  It is at most a gezeirah/takanah.  (I have a
comment penciled in the margin of my gemara directing me to Ritva Megilla
28a where he says that this is not an issur, but a middas chassidus.)  The
same should apply to the gemara in MK 17a which uses a similar lashon.

KT,
Michael
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