[Avodah] Kaddish (was: Shabbas he mi lezok)

[Elazar M. Teitz]

     The following dialogue took place between RRWolpoe and RZSero:

RRW: Kaddish after Aleinu [after shir Hakavod] could use its own thread.
  The usual structure is
  Kaddish Yehei Shlamah after Mikra
  Kaddish Derabbnan after TSBP

RZS: Kaddish derabanan must also be preceded by mikra, which is why we say the mishna "R Chananya ben Akashya", which ends with a pasuk.

     Is there a makor for this requirement?  I was taught that the reason for saying the mishna is that kaddish d'rabbanan is only said after aggadah (and for which, too, I would welcome a source).  In many shuls, a kaddish d'rabbanan is said after the b'raisa d'Rabbi Yishma'l, without korbanos, even though it ends with no pasuk (and, for that matter, contains no aggadah).

RRW: Aleinu and Shir Hakavod do not fit into any of the above

RZS: They're both followed immediately by a pasuk ("Vehaya Hashem lemelech" and "Mi yemalel") precisely for this reason.

     Aleinu does not require the adding of "Vehaya," since it already ends with the pasuk "Hashem yimloch l'olam va'ed."  Shir Hakavod is also followed by the pasuk "L'cha Hashem hag'dulah," so that "Mi y'mallel" is not needed to justify kaddish.  Obviously, then, these p'sukim are said for their content, and not for permitting kaddish.
 
     It would seem that it's the other way around: not that the p'sukim are added so that kaddish may be said, but rather that kaddish is said because there are p'sukim.

EMT