[Avodah] Minhag Yisroel and Gra on 2 Matzos vs.3 Matzos/Rabbi shopping

[Arie Folger]

On Sunday, 28. October 2007 00.18:08 Chana Luntz wrote:
> Now one of the things about this case that fascinates me is that we know
> nothing about this woman except that she changed the course of Jewish
> history (think of the number of marriages and children that have
> subsequently been permitted because of what happened to this woman).
> Was she a particularly pious woman?  Was she a particularly non pious
> woman?  Was she a completely average woman (and how was that
> determined)?
>
> But on a deeper level what this case illustrates (and I could have
> brought you many other examples) is that Chazal tended not to work from
> the platonic ideal and apply downwards, but tended to work from
> individual cases and work upwards.  Even where they do bring a general
> principle "v'zeh haklal" is it almost invariably preceeded by a list of
> specifics, and I don't think that is an accident.  

[Crawling out of self imposed lurk-exile ...]
I believe that there is a major difference between 'Hazal and contemporary 
cases, partly because nowaday it is possible to go pessaq shopping, which, 
when there was only one beit din per city, was impossible. And I didn't even 
begin talking about the legislative powers they had (Sanhedrin was still 
around, etc.), which we don't have.

IOW, I find that while your argument that pessaq worked and sometimes may 
still work (that needs further analysis) partly bottom up, this in no way 
justifies the shoel looking for a particular outcome.

In fact, from another sugya, in Ketubot 23a, about a woman, and later two who 
says that she was imprisoned but remained tehorah, we see how it was 
preferable to manipulate the reality (making sure that the daughters of Mar 
Shemuel came to beit din while the captors were kept at a distance -- a weird 
situation, where the captors would be willing to wait at a distance. Either 
the captors had been caught, or they were government forces confident that 
the women could not disappear under their watch, having numerous forces with 
them. The latter is indicated by Rashi s.v. Deatyyan liNharda'ah, where he 
explains that the women came to be redeemed).

Of course, one might argue that there was no one who would have ruled 
leniently once having met the captors, so this argument of mine isn't yet 
watertight.

[back into self imposed lurk exile...]
KT,
-- 
Arie Folger
http://www.ariefolger.googlepages.com