[Avodah] Minhag Yisroel and Gra on 2 Matzos vs.3 Matzos

[Arie Folger]

RJR wrote:
> No problem, just pointing out that this implies 2 identically situated
> individuals may get a different dvar hashem depending on who they go to
> (some find this objectionable hashkafically) and that it does, as
> previously discussed, imply subjectivity which then brings into question
> the role of motivation (e.g. had the women's tfila groups come the same
> route as amen groups, would they have been allowed).

Eh... why not. I believe that many WTG opponents have a philosophical problem 
with them, which in turn engenders halakhic issues. However, I am not aware 
of any of the WTG opponents who also oppose Beit Yaakov schools' group 
prayers.

> It also raises the question of what if my 2 identically situated people
> meet each other and decide they should seek the "true" dvar hashem by going
> to a higher level posek,  and why shouldn't this be the 1st option if one
> is seeking the "true" dvar hashem (if one thinks there can really only be
> one)

The two identical people in the quote are not posqim, but shoalim. We all know 
that different posqim can sometimes give different answers to the same 
question, and no two posqim are identical. Furthermore, insofar as a psaq is 
within the halakhically imaginable, why can't there be more than one "true" 
answer, especially regarding issues that depend on kireot 'eyney hadayan etc.

I'll even go further. The halakhah clearly is against excessive consensus in 
criminal cases. If all members of Sanhedrin convict someone to the death 
penalty, he is freed. Some mebers must invariably believe that the criminal 
cannot be executed or the punishment cannot be carried out. Remember, we are 
talking about Sanhedrin, the greatest tzadiqim and ba'alei messorah in the 
whole Jewish nation. And yet they must disagree!

Nonetheless, most of the questions we have looked at did not involve anything 
remotely so difficult. Having two or three matzot at the seder is probably 
not even a derabbanan. In other cases, we have a ma'hloqet about a derabbanan 
[aspect of a deOraita mitzvah].

Finally, I can give you a theological underpinning of the plurality of certain 
kinds of pessaq. Pessaq is a struggle, the struggle to do the right thing, 
the struggle to act with yirat shamayim, the struggle for deveikut. Hence, 
the process is as important as the outcome, provided one approaches a 
qualified, G"d fearing posseq (or one is such oneself).

True, it could be that after going to a bigger posseq the question will be 
resolved in favor of one of the approaches, but that will have been the 
result of a new struggle, and hence has a new outcome. Also, the "higher" 
posseq might rule that each of the pisqei halakhah are right for their 
respective shoalim.

There is, however, one point in which I disagree with the quote I posted: I do 
not believe that two identical shoalim exist. Hence a pessaq is always 
personal.
-- 
Arie Folger
http://www.ariefolger.googlepages.com