[Avodah] Selichos - especially before midnight

[Dov Kay]

<<What DOES make sense to me is that if you removed ALL Qabblistic sources
there is AFAIK zero Halachic considerations for not saying Selichos earlier
than Midnight.>>

But that arch-rationalist, the Rambam, states that one should rise in the 
night and say selichos, to finish them with daybreak.  The Gemara itself 
refers to certain times as being more propitious than others, and these 
references cannot simply be dismissed as kabbalistic as opposed to halachic.

The Rambam's reference to "rising at night" leads me to surmise that the 
early rising, and the discomfort that comes with it, is part of the process. 
  The Rambam didn't need to tell me when to rise if his intention was merely 
to convey the z'man for selichos.

I think R. Wolpoe's arguments raise the larger question of what weight 
should be given to kabbalistic practices.  It seems to me some of these 
practices have become so enmeshed in our custom and sifrei poskim that ARE 
halacha and cannot be dismissed, except perhaps by those Teimanim who never 
adopted these practices to start with.  No-one, for instance, rejects 
practices prescribed by the Talmud on the basis that could only have had a 
mystical rationale.  This probably also applies to practices prescribed by 
the Shulchan Oruch, eg putting on the right shoe before the left.  I concede 
that this is no yeharog v'al yaavor, but would you argue that it is not 
halacha at all?

G'mar chasima tovah
Dov Kay

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