[Avodah] [Areivim] Standing for the Chasan and Kalah

[Zev Sero]

On Areivim, Yitzchok Levine <Larry.Levine at stevens.edu> wrote:

>  I have posted the material dealing with this topic at
> http://www.stevens.edu/golem/llevine/levine/standing_chasuna.pdf

The author writes:
   "Since the groom does not receive the status of 'chasan' until
after the recitation of
    all those brachos which are said under the chupah"
and in a Hebrew footnote writes:
   "So it appears obvious, for otherwise how is this person different
from anybody else,
    for he has not yet done anything in the matter of kidushin or
nisuin?  Also see
    Sefer Hashorashim of the Radak, shoresh chasan, who writes that
the ikar of the
    word chatan' is the renewal of the simcha (see Nedarim 32a and
Yerushalmi ibid
    3:9, and Mishna Nidah 42a), and what addition or renewal of the
simcha is there
    now?  It is obvious that the simcha is only after the completion
of the kidushin
    and nisuin."
Thus far the author of the material RYL posted.

It seems to me that this is not at all as obvious as the author
thinks.  First, the
chatan has done something in the matter of kidushin and nisuin - he has accepted
a kinyan on the ketuba.    Indeed, the first time he is mentioned in
the ketuba he is
not called "hechatan", because the kalah has not yet indicated her acceptance of
his proposal; but the second time he is mentioned he is called "chatan
dinan", and
he continues to be called that every time he is mentioned again, because by this
time he has made his proposal, and the witnesses have reason to believe that the
kalah has accepted it*.  By the time he walks to the chupah the witnesses have
already referred to him as a chatan several times, and have taken a
kinyan from him,
so surely he is indeed a chatan.

* (Precisely what reason they have to believe this is another
question, since she isn't
usually present when the ketubah is filled in and signed, and the witnesses make
the kinyan on her behalf, without necessarily ever having met her, let
alone asked
her whether she authorises them to do so.  But that's a question for
another time.)


-- 
Zev Sero
zev at sero.name