[Avodah] Ben Beserah

[Micha Berger]

On Fri, July 20, 2007 7:54 am, Eli Turkel wrote:
: Historians debate whether they were from an extended family
: or perhaps this was just a title....
:                                  There is no connection between
: the one in the days of Hillel and the later one in Nesivin outside
: of Israel

See the Maharsha (Agados, Pesachim 66a) who says R' Yehuda ben
Beseira, R' Yehoshua and R' Shim'on are the same Benei Beseira who
bowed before Hillel. (Something I learned from your nephew, Rav
Mordechai, BTW.)

An argument against Benei Beseira being actual sons of a man named
Beseira is that it would rule out their serving togather. However, who
said the three called Ben Bereira were the sons of a R' Beseira
either?

Setting him in relation to other people:

R' Yochanan ben Bag Bag sends him a she'eilah (Qidushin 10b).

R' Elazer ben Shammua and R' Yochanan haSandler started to go to
Nisivin to learn under him but they couldn't handle the thought of
becoming yoredim and turned back (Sifrei, Devarim 80).

So far, he must have lived during Bayis Sheini. As long as there was a
RYbB during Bayis Sheini, whether or not there was another (or two)
later, one can't use RYbB's tricking the nachri into asking for
cheilev as proof that qorbanos were brought after the churban. It
could have been the one who was a contemporary of REbS, RYhS, RYbBB
and Hillel.

However, as you probably guessed from my "so far" and "another (or
two) later", there is evidence for RET's claim as well. Google is your
friend... It pointed me to the Jewish Encyclopedia entry. Thereby
giving me meqoros beyond RMK's citation of the Maharsha that I was
basing my earlier post upon.

Menachos 65b has a machloqes RYbB and R' Aqiva. Tosafos therefore
conclude there is more than one RYbB.

Then there's the RYbB who was a contemporary of Rebbe, unless the
girsa "Pesira" is correct (Sanhedrin 96a). And the contemporary of
Rebbe (Chulin 54a, Shabbos 130a), and the contemporary of R' Yoshia
(Sifrei, Badmibar 123).

Tir'u baTov!
-mi