[Avodah] lifnei iver/kanaus

[Micha Berger]

On Wed, Sep 19, 2007 at 04:33:09PM +0100, Chana Luntz wrote:
: Even more generally, there are opinons out there that one might find
: somewhat worrying to modern sensibilities, but I am not sure we should
: pretend they do not exist.  For example the Rema states in Choshen
: Mishpat Siman 421 si'if 13 "v'chen mi shehu tachas reshuto v'roeh bo
: shehu oseh d'var averah rashai l'hachuso v'lyissuro cde l'hefrusho
: m'isur v'ain tzarich l'hevio l'beis din (trumas hadeshen siman 18)" He
: also brings a linked statement in Even Haezer siman 154 si'if 3 as a
: yesh omrim (and then brings an alternative opinion that it is absolutely
: forbidden), but I am afraid he then goes on to say that the first
: opinion is the ikar.

I figure that the biggest difference between the mesorah and our response
to it is the current cultural emphasis on autonomy.

In a culture which defines morality in terms of rights, we do not take to
negative reinforcement the way people have for most of human history.
We like the carrot, but chafe under the stick. Rather than Shelomo
haMelekh's rod (as generally understood, not as RSW explains it) causing
positive change, it sparks rebellion.

We therefore can't relate to corporal punishment. But not necessarily
entirely for the good. It comes from an underlying inability, the same
place from which comes our need to "connect" to mitzvos rather than
submit to them.

On Wed, Sep 19, 2007 at 10:06:28PM +0200, Akiva Blum wrote:
: Why does this trouble you. One might be justified arguing that in the
: 21st century it would be largely inaffective. Or that it's a dangerous
: slope. But surely fom a moral standpoint, his longterm welfare is of
: paramount importance.

Well... Since we're now unable to even imagine a sane talmid reforming
under such a regimen, we have a hard time imagining a situation where
it would help his longterm welfare and thus be moral.

And that's why the very idea rubs us the wrong way.

Tir'u baTov!
-mi

-- 
Micha Berger             Mussar is like oil put in water,
micha at aishdas.org        eventually it will rise to the top.
http://www.aishdas.org                    - Rabbi Israel Salanter
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