[Avodah] Fwd: Re: [Areivim] Humanistic Rabbis and humor about death

[Daniel Israel]

I was asked to move this to Avodah.  I the context is clear, but I 
admit I'm a little embarrased since the only halachic souce I 
actually cite is, "I think."  Perhaps someone more familar with the 
topic can back me up (or not).

On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 20:52:48 -0600 T613K at aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 7/26/2007, skohn at Sidley.com writes:
>>>Even assuming "leitzanus deAvoda Zara"  -- rather than "zilusa 
>deAvoda Zara" -- is an accurate quotation from the  chazal, there 
is a 
>big difference between making fun of an Avoda Zara so that  
someone is 
>not motivated to worship it, and making jokes based on the death 
of  
>someone who, while not observant by any standard, was an atheist 
and 
>therefore  by definition not an ovaid avodah zarah.<<
>
>I'm not so sure that the attitudes expressed in Tanach and Chazal 
>towards whose who deny G-d are only meant for those who deny Him 
AND 
>worship other gods as well.  Denying G-d and worshipping yourself 
would 
>count, I believe, as  A'Z

To count halachically as AZ I think it would require actual self-
worship in the sense of bringing korbanos or doing other acts of 
avoda (or getting other to do so).  I don't think humanistic 
prayers celebrating the greatness of man would count.  Prayers 
claiming some sort of divine powers (a la Pharoh's claim to be the 
source of bounty in Egyptian agriculture) would be necessasy.  IMHO.

In less technical, more hashkafic sense, I agree with you 100%.

--
Daniel M. Israel
dmi1 at cornell.edu