[Avodah] Rationalism and supernaturalism

[Yitzhak Grossman]

On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 21:55:51 -0700 RMB wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 07, 2007 at 01:59:04PM -0700, Eli Turkel wrote:
> : I contend that it goes way beyond hilchot yesodei haTorah. One example
> : is that Rambam outlaws "magic shows" as kishuf while others define kishuf
> : as being "real black magic" as opposed to sleight of hand. However, Rambam
> : could not hold this shita since on philosophical grounds he denies
> : the existence of real magic....
> 
> Which came first -- the chicken or the egg? Perhaps the Rambam's
> willingness to believe that all kishuf is trickery was because he had
> to explain why it would be assur otherwise.
> 
> After all, believing in actual magic would even have been proper
> Aristotilianism. Magic, astrology and alchemy weren't excluded from the
> realm of rationalism until enturies after the Rambam.

Astrology and perhaps alchemy weren't, and neither were certain forms
of divination, but what's your basis for extending that claim to magic
in general?

Yitzhak
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