[Avodah] Fw: [Areivim] reporting yidden to a secular police

[SBA]

From: "Jonathan Baker" <>
RMM responded:
> Let me just say that I'm not 100% comfortable with the idea of
> reporting yidden to a secular police.

It seems to me that next week's parsha mandates a police presence, in
the first verse, no?  What am I missing, that nobody has raised this
issue yet?
: Chapter 16 18.
You shall set up judges and law enforcement officials for yourself
: in all your cities that the Lord, your God, is giving you, for your
: tribes, and they shall judge the people [with] righteous judgment.

Sanhedrin 16b: Braita: one must appoint police, (veshotrim), tribal
police (lishvateicha), city police (lish'areicha).
>>>

That refers to Shoftim, ie, Sanhedrin and/or BD.
Not secular (and even anti-Torah) courts and govts.

>>> Israel is a JEWISH state.  Its police is a Jewish
police, appointed by the (majority-Jewish) government.  Its power to
enforce the law is part of the Torah system.

Israel may have a majority Jewish population - but its laws and justice
methods have absolutely nothing to do with the Torah system.
.....


Having made that clear - here is my response to RMM's post (on Areivim):

> From: "Mike Miller" <>
> SBA wrote: IIRC, there is no issur to 'dob in' a violent person -
>> who may again hurt someone.

> This may be an Avodah question, but is this because mesirah doesn't
> apply at all, or because it's nidche due to pikuach nefesh. Is there a
> chiluk b/w violent and deadly?

Deadly is definitely permitted.
But even violent persons may be handed over to goyim.

See CM 388 from sk 9 onwards.

s. 11: "...Hametzar tzibbur umetzaaron - muttar lemosro beyad Akum -
lehakoso, le'osro ulekanso. Avol mipnei tzaar yochid ossur lemosro.."
SMA 30: "..ve'im yosro bemakos ve'onshei haguf - muttar".
Shach 60: "Mi sheragil lehakos - muttar lemosro lehatzil shelo yakkeh od"

I would think that these cases may be handed over EVEN to secular Jewish 
authorities.

SBA