[Avodah] "Yeshivishe Payes"

[Danny Schoemann]

R' Marty Bluke wrote:
> See the Chasam Sofer (I don't have the exact mareh makom this second)
> where he explains the Rambam along the lines of what I said.

As I previously mentioned, the Pischei Tshuva (ibid 3) brings a Tshuva
from the Chasam Sofer allowing one to comb that hair - in response to
R' Akiva Eiger's query
on the matter. The CS can be found in YD 139 (and a follow up in 140).

>From memory:
The CS (who doesn't mention the "4 hair" possibility) explains the
Rambam to mean that you need to leave 40 hairs in the Payes area. He
doesn't know where the Rambam got this number from. He doesn't discuss
the length of the Payes.

Other tidbits I discovered this morning:
The SA HaRav (like the AhS) skipped over YD 181.

The Sefer Darchei Tshuva (by R' Tzvi Hirsch Shapira, Av BD of Munkács)
is a Likut of assorted opinions on all of SA - on YD 181:

- He brings an opinion that using scissors is "Potur but Ossur".

- He brings various opinions that say that (like all hair-related
halochos) the length would be that you can bend the tip back onto the
root (as you propose).

Best of all he helps with your original question as to the source of
Yeshivishe Payes: He quotes from "the Hanhagos of the CS MHD"T [I
assume: Mahaduro Tinyoso - 2nd ed.] printed at the back of Y"D Lvov
Edition" (I assume he means the Shut CS - but it's not in the back of
our standard edition of CS or SA).

Loose translation from memory: The Ksav Sofer mentions that he father
said that letting the payos grow till the beard area is a mistake. Yet
many of his students do so - Vtovo Aleihem Brocho - a blessing on
them.

So we see that in the CS's time they already had Yeshivishe Payes!

In summary: The earliest sources we have for letting the payos grow
till the beard area are the "Smag as per the Bach" and the "Beis
Lechem Yehuda quoting the Ari z"l".

All other sources seem to pasken that the length would be that you can
bend the tip back onto the root.

All opinions seem to agree that their pask applies to the entire Payes
area (top of forehead - top of ear - bottom of ear "triangle"), with
the Rambam permitting one to thin it out to [a width? of] 40 hairs.
(Some readings have 4 hairs.)

BTW: Pictures of the CS [e.g. http://answers.com/chasam-sofer ] seem
to show that he didn't trim his peyos.

- Danny (from Answers.com)