[Avodah] Torah study vs.Other contributions to society

[Micha Berger]

On Sun, May 27, 2007 12:19 pm, R Doron Beckerman wrote:
: RMB
:> I am befuddled by the amount of attention we're giving Megillah
:> 16b. After all, Mordechai himself, the subject of the discussion,
:> chose hatzalas hefashos. ... "Rov echav", most of Anshei Keneses
:> haGedolah : approved to the point of not thinking less of him. <<

: But yet again you focus on that part of the Gemara and not on the one
: immediately following where the Navi himself places Mordechai further
: down the list! ...

No, I disagree over that is the sort order of the list. In what way is
he further behind. The pasuq tells you it's ratzui, not zechus. I am
using the reisha to explain the context assumed by the seifa, which
then makes the seifa totally unrelated to what you're trying to prove.

: As I quoted, the "Rif' on the Ein Yaakov says that this Gemara is
: to show that *Hashem Himself* agreed with those Miut Sanhedrin!
:
:
:
:>> Clearly, the Taz holds our gemara is not prescriptive.

: No, it is clear that he does, since he proves his reading from the
: fact that Ezra did not go up until Baruch Ben Neriyah died, from
: which the Gemara there proves, similar to our issue, that Ezra did
: the right thing, and anyone in the same position should choose TT
: over Binyan BHM"K, and, similarly, over Hatzalas Nefashos, if others
: will do it.

But the Taz, like the rest of us, do not tell you to start learning
rather than save lives. The halakhah is about interrupting learning if
someone else could do it. When the subject is not that of
interruption, hakol modim one chooses hatzalas nefashos. The Taz
"merely" says the sechar is greater if you're in a position where you
should make the other choice.

:> The Chasam Sofer (parashas Zachor, pg 193) writes that Mordechai
:> got the job of hatzalas nefashos because HQBH valued his learning
:> less. That's why Hashem put him in a place where his Torah study was
: interrupted, rather than doing the same to theirs. And when Anshei
: Kenesses haGedolah saw this, they demoted him one level.
:
: Sure, if Hashem PUTS you in a situation where you will have your Torah
: study interrupted to be Matzil Nefesh, you have to do it!

The CS was answering the Taz's question, and saying that the demotion
had to to with Hashem choosing his bitul over another's and not
because he made the wrong choice.

:: We are told not to follow his Derech for *the multitudes* (*Harbeh*
:: Assu etc.), but the Biur Halachah (156) says that there are
:: individuals who can...
:
:> Nu, so that answers the BH's opinion of the Gra or what he would
:> think of the CI, if either really did live "ivory tower Torah"...
:> It says little about what anyone else should be doing....

: It means that one who CAN do so, should! And its not just the BH, it
: is the Nefesh HaChaim and the Brisker Rav who say the same. R'
: Nehorai said that he will not teach his son any trade, only Torah,
: since he wanted his son to follow the path of RSHB"Y.
How can you take a statement about yechidei segulah and turn it into a
lifestyle? Particularly when the gemara is quite clear that it doesn't
work and shouldn't be used as a lifestyle for the non-gedolim of this
world. If you're the generation's RSBY...

About the mishnah in avos...:
: The equivalent to being Mezalzel in Lulav and not
: taking it on Succos is seeing someone dying when you have the
: herewithal to help him and you don't do it because you are earning
: more points (if you would know that to be true) learning than saving
: the person. That he is obligated to do.

The mishnah "hevei zahir" doesn't say "when the two conflict". Rather,
be as careful in your hatzalas nefashos as you learning. Or even in
your esrog as your learning. The mishnah seems to be a clear statement
about not prioritizing.

As for your parenthetic "(if you would know that to be true)", the
seifa of the mishnah spells out that it's not true. You can't know the
sechar of a mitzvah. Any argument based on the idea that Torah being
consistently the greater sechar choice is simply soseir the mishnah.

...
: Someone who can learn but does not, rather chooses to become a Zaka
: worker, is not following any Halachah.

Actually, what I see is that a person who interrupts learning to be an
EMT or Zaka worker is not following halakhah. If he goes to class at
times other than his seider, he is not. However, if he is a RSBY, then
he ought to be lifnim mishuras hadin learning toraso umnaso and not
planning other activities. But only those yechidim, and that's not
even an issur lehalakhah, but an "ought".

Tir'u baTov!
-mi

-- 
Micha Berger             Spirituality is like a bird: if you tighten
micha at aishdas.org        your grip on it, it chokes; slacken your grip,
http://www.aishdas.org   and it flies away.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                            - Rav Yisrael Salanter