[Avodah] Torah Study vs. other contributions to society

[Micha Berger]

This thread went on for quite a length before I found the time to
contribute, so rather than structure this as a reply to a dozen or so
posts, I will try to just state what I'm thinking, rather than phrase
it as a dialogue.

We went on a detour about what the proper criterian for judging
learning. First, while I don't want to go into a discussion of whether
artificial intelligence is possible, I think we could agree that a
computer with a Bar Ilan CD doesn't actually "know" the Torah on the
disk. Computer storange isn't knowledge.

It's true that computers (at least today) lack the creative ability to
be mechadeish. But that doesn't mean that chidush = intellect, and
thus
being able to invent chiddushim = a more valuable limud.

I would still say the most valuable talmud Torah is more about
hasmadah and hislahavus than success. Yes, this leaves us unable to
judge whose learning is more valuable. But isn't that what the mishnah
tells us, to as as careful bemitzvah qalah kevachamurah because we
can't possibly
know secharan hel mitzvos? The fact that we can't judge for ourselves
would actually prove the *correctness* of the criterion.

Of course, when forced to choose priority, halakhah will have to use
some criterion. There is a mitzvah qalah and a mitzvah chamurah, even
though we can't use this or any crietion to know the true value of the
mitzvos.


While the question before us, the relative importance of talmud Torah to
other mitzvos, isn't the central question of TuM. However, the
connection seems obvious to me. Someone who believes their horizons
are supposed to be broad enough to include mada would probably
advocate a similar broadness between TT and other mitzvos.

This doesn't quite work, but for reasons specific to RYBS's
formulation. Leshitaso, TuM is about a life of having to navigate two
worlds -- but both of them worlds of the intellect. Which would place
mada in a different relationship to TT than other mitzvos; not simply
further away from TT in a similar kind of relationship.

Rav Hutner writes on "kol hama'arich be-'echad' ma'arichin lo es
yamav". To extend the "echad" is not only a manner of davening -- it's
a way of living life. One must extend the achdus Hashem over as broad
of a life as possible. Elsewhere in Pachas Yitzchaq he gives a mashal
contrasting the person who lives in a house, and then buys an
apartment with a person whose home has two rooms. The first person is
living a double life -- his friends at the house, his family, etc...
vs his contacts and setting at the apartment. The latter person isn't
living two lives, rather his life is broadened by having multiple
rooms.

In that formulation, if one says that the need for breadth means TIDE
is the idea, then of course one must have breadth in their mitzvos,
and not learn Torah to the extent that there is no time left for the
other 612.

Similarly in RSRH's earlier formulation of TIDE -- the ideal is a
refined, ennobled, cultured shomeir Torah umitzvos. Torah without the
refinement is inferior. TIDE's breadth must qal vakhomer include a
more all-around interest in mitzvos.

Most telling is the Seridei Eish's explanation of RSRH's position:
    The Torah, according to Rav Hirsch, is the force that gives form.
    Form, to Aristotle's thought, means a thing's essential nature in
    distinction to the substance from which it is embodied. Derekh
    Eretz is merely the matter on which Torah works.
       (Essay in "Shimshon Rephael Hirsch: Mishnaso veShitaso")

To never leave the "ivory towers" of talmud Torah to apply that Torah
beguf and to the real world would be form with no substance, empty and
without embodiment.


The question of when one may interrupt one's learning differs from
nidon didan in a critical way. It's not about how to prioritize one's
mitzvos. It's about whether to interrupt the mitzvah one is in the
midst of in order to perform another.

The same Pachad Yitzchaq discusses the problem with asking an
off-sugyah question of one's rebbe. Usually it is explained in terms
of avoiding the possibility of embarassing one's rebbe in public.
(Lema'aseh this is impluasible. Even with our current round of
gedolim, who do not pretend to be on the level of tannaim or amora'im,
it would be difficult to catch them off guard about a sugyah, and rare
for one of them to be embarassed over it.)

RYH explains it that one can't interrupt the rebbe's ameilus, his
being "in the sugyah" by switching topics. IOW, interruption is not
proof of a greater mitzvah, but of the cost of interrupting the train
of thought and trying to recover it later. Even within the same
mitzvah -- don't interupt!

As for RDR's point about the SA and the Rama writing that if divrei
Torah are to be misqaymim one must make them ikkarim, and the rest of
life tafeil... RYH writes that the reason there is only one birkhas
haTorah a day is that part of learning is lilmod al menas la'asos.
Therefore, one should ideally be going through life thinking of one's
actions as an essential part of the qiyum of TT, the la'asos, not an
interruption from it. This would fulfill the Rama's point about which
is ikkar without implying anything about priority or time division.
And explain the laudibility of RSR's friend the doctor, or our own
RDJBackon who is a doctor and in medical research, and yet finds
significant time for harbatzas Torah.


In any case, a statement about interrupting a mitzvah can't be taken
to be one about prioritization.

Second, as I said on top, the mishnah calls on us to have equal
zehirus for all mitzvos -- even ones that are qalos in some ways
compared to others! So how can we then take talmud torah keneged kulam
as proof to give it more zehirus?

Third, what about the other 6 mitzvos that are keneged kulam? My son
is currently learning an anonymous seifer called "Mitzvos haShavos"
which is based on the notion that each of the 7 represents what he
phrased a "primary value" in Yiddishkeit. Rafi adds that it is
generally accepted that the author is RSWolbe.

The value of a mitzvah would IMHO depend upon knowing the pegamim in
the individual, and knowing what needs to be addressed. Just as I have
tried to teach my children to prioritize their mitzvos so as to best
leverage the kishronos they bring in their unique combination to the
beri'ah.

Tir'u baTov!
-mi

-- 
Micha Berger             Today is the 40th day, which is
micha at aishdas.org        5 weeks and 5 days in/toward the omer.
http://www.aishdas.org   Hod sheb'Yesod: When does
Fax: (270) 514-1507      reliability/self-control mean submitting to
others?