[Avodah] More on Mitzvos and Iyun

[Moshe Yehuda Gluck]

*On Thu, Mar 29, 2007 at 10:38:54PM -0400, Moshe Yehuda Gluck wrote:
*: R' MB:
*:* Lomdus is of little practical value,
*
*: I would add: ...except if you are already a Baki.
R' MB:
*How is it of /practical/ value even to a baqi? Lomdus is Torah lishmah,
*knowledge for the sake of knowing Retzon haBorei. It has no applicability,
*in fact I argued it can get in the way of being able to decide how to
*apply the din. It has no visible impact on the middos amd does little
*for deveiqus. (In fact, the Besh"t recommended deveiqus breaks.)
*
*So in what knowable way does deep be'iyun refine and ennoble the
*student? And if it's in a mystical way, perhaps it helps the lesser
*student in the same metarational way?


I'm not sure that learning B'iyun refines or ennobles the student any more
than learning any other part of the Torah does or does not. I was responding
to your statement that it has little practical value, unless one is a
Poseik. I think it does have practical value, even for a non-Poseik, but
only for someone who is a Baki. That said, I'm not sure your Lomdus and my
Lomdus are the same things - you wrote that Lomdus is "Torah lishmah,
knowledge for the sake of knowing Retzon haBorei." My Lomdus is
understanding the intent and the rationale of the subject, to be able to
extrapolate, compare and contrast one inyan with another (even if they are
superficially non-related), and to be able to better understand both Inyanim
better because of it. The problem most neophytes (V'gam Ani B'socham) have
with this is that they either think they are doing this correctly,
misleading themselves; or they come up with Sevaros or Chillukim which
(although they don't know it) are contradicted somewhere else; or, they
don't have a way of determining whether what they are saying is correct.
That's why I said that the practical value Lomdus has is limited to a Baki,
who isn't plagued by these three issues.

This is a great place to post a story that I heard - I posted it once a long
time ago, and I wasn't able to confirm if it is, indeed, a true story. As
with all my IIRC stories, all details are subject to revision. :-)

Someone once suggested a Shidduch between the daughter of a prominent Talmid
Chochom and one of R' Chaim Brisker's sons. The prospective Mechutan visited
Brisk, and met with R' Chaim to discuss the matter. He said, "Nu, tell me
about your son." R' Chaim answered, "He knows Shas with Rashi." The Talmid
Chacham said, "Shas with Rashi? Dontcha know that this is Brisk? I thought
you would tell me he's a Lamdan, or that he can say a good Sevara. Why are
you praising him that he knows Shas with Rashi?" R' Chaim said, "Do you
think I let someone say a Sevara before he knows Shas and Rashi?!" and
refused to consider this particular Shidduch further.

KT and CKVS,
MYG