[Avodah] Concord wine for 4 kosos

[Micha Berger]

On Thu, Mar 08, 2007 at 08:20:17PM -0500, Moshe Yehuda Gluck wrote:
: See Pesachim 35a, ...
: it appears that whatever taxonomy was used by Chazal was sufficiently broad to
: allow these to be considered subspecies of some sort of wheat and barley.
: Presumably, hybrid/seedless grapes are still considered grapes, and their
: fermented juice, wine.

My point was about concord grapes, not the hybrid. I'm using the
infertility of the hybrid to prove that lehalakhah, they are
separate species.

Different forms of wheat and barley might be able to produce fertile
offspring. In which case, they are less estranged than old world
and concord grapes.

On Thu, Mar 08, 2007 at 08:22:02PM -0500, Zev Sero wrote:
: Lich'ora, this is the same shaila as the Muscovy duck...

Or Turkey?

I don't think so. In that case, mesorah defines whch birds we can assume
have simanei kashrus. The Muscovy duck has simanim, as far as we can
tell, and we are relying on whether its similarity to ducks is enough
to trust the simanim.

I see your reason to be meiqil because it's derabbanan, but the issue
in doubt is deOraisa.

Concord grapes are not native to EY, it's not the gefen of the 7 minim.
Here we're trying to decide the breadth of a term in chumash, not the
limits of a mesorah used to double-check. Mesorah isn't /defining/
reality, lashon haTorah is.

Tir'u baTov!
-mi

-- 
Micha Berger             Spirituality is like a bird: if you tighten
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