[Avodah] early bird specials and ribbis

[Zev Sero]

Micha Berger wrote:
> On Mon, February 19, 2007 7:22 am, R Michael Kopinsky quoted me and asked:

> :> Is avaq ribis prohibited as ribis, or prohibited as mar'is ayin?
> :
> : As Zev said, there are different categories.  Mechzei K'ribbis (which he
> : says is applicable here, I haven't looked up the sources properly to agree
> : or disagree in this particular case) is different from Avak Ribbis.  The
> : Rosh writes in Eizehu Neshech (on the sugya of "Ein Sochrim mimenu
> : b'pachos") that Mechzei K'ribbis is subjective, and thus dependent on the
> : situation.
> 
> Given this Rosh, what would be the status of heter iska today? Does it make a
> difference if the person is enough of a lamdan to really feel its more than
> just a loophole?

AIUI, Mechzei Keribbis means that an outside observer who is fully
aware of all the details of the transaction, but can't read the minds
of the parties, can't distinguish this from a loan.  In the case of an
iska, there is a contract setting out the terms, which are very
different from that of a loan.  So the omniscient-but-not-telepathic
observer would readily see that it isn't a loan.  In the case of
paying advance wages at a discount, if the "borrower" is a current
employee of the "lender" then the observer can readily understand
that the money is not a loan but an advance on the employee's wages.
But if there is no employee-employer relationship then this observer
has no basis by which to distinguish the transaction from an ordinary
loan, so he will naturally (but mistakenly) assume that that's what
it is; when, at some future point, the "borrower" begins working for
the "lender", and does unpaid work worth more than the amount he
received, the obvious (though wrong) conclusion is that he is paying
interest.


-- 
Zev Sero               Something has gone seriously awry with this Court's
zev at sero.name          interpretation of the Constitution.
                       	                          - Clarence Thomas