[Avodah] Zchor Et Asher Assa Lecha Amaleck. Germania?

[Micha Berger]

On Wed, February 21, 2007 6:38 am, Galsaba at aol.com wrote:
:  The Gemara in Megila Daf Vav Amud Beit mentions that Germamia is Edom, and
: Yabet"z says Germamia is Germania of today.   ie, Germania is Edom.
: so Germania is Edom.

The gemara seems to identify Edom with the Idumians (Herod's people), and from
there to Rome -- all different groups than those tribes being described here.
Also, the presence of any of these peoples in Persia in time for the Purim
story would be a rarity.

I therefore would stress the unclarity of whether the Gemara means the genetic
descendants of Eisav, or that one/some of the warring tribes of the Germany of
their era live Eisav's lifestyle.

And in either case, even if the land is the same, who knows the fate of the
particular tribe(s) from Edom?

: Do we have any sources (Mekorot) that refer to Germania as Amalek?
: or Edom as Amamlek?

All Amaleqim must also be from Edom, Amaleiq's grandfather. That doesn't
necessarily mean a particular group of Edomi are Amaleiqi.

I can, however, make an argument that the real Aryans might be or have merged
with the Amaleiqim.

There is nothing in the books of Paras uMadai about Purim. However, there is a
story of a resurgence of polytheism over Zoroastrianism which is then ended by
Cyrus. And the battle between the polytheists and the Zoroastrians got
violent. The leading ethnic group behind polytheism were the Aryans. It is
therefore possible that from the perspective of Persian history, our whole
trauma got subsumed as part of the general battle against monotheism.

Cyrus's monotheism was compromised by the belief that the Deity created two
minor gods -- one good/truth/light, and one evil -- who then created the
universe. Yeshaiah addresses this dualism when HQBH has him leave a message
for Cyrus that only one Creator "Yotzeir or uVorei chosekh, Oseh shalom uVorei
ra." (Discussion about Deutero-Isaiah and when Cyrus lived ellided.)

This version of the story would make Achashveirosh a puppet of the
polytheists, who put his Zoroastrian predecessor out of power. Haman is
described by chazal as being a leading polytheist, a political big shot who
wore AZ around his neck! No wonder Achashveirosh gave him power -- it was
Haman's party who were behind his getting the throne. The request to Vashti
can now be seen as an assertion of pagan celebration rather than her
Zoroastrian background. Although she was no picture of morality herself, her
notions of tzeni'us are very unpagan. And her refusal was thus not only
disobeying her husband, and insubordination to the king, it was also
threatening to the entire religious coalition that had him on the throne.

All of which would make it very plausible that Haman haAgagi was an Aryan.

The Germans, despite the claims of the Nazis y"sh, were not actually Aryans.
But assuming the name may have been incredibly telling.

Tir'u baTov!
-mi

-- 
Micha Berger             Spirituality is like a bird: if you tighten
micha at aishdas.org        your grip on it, it chokes; slacken your grip,
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Fax: (270) 514-1507                            - Rav Yisrael Salanter