[Avodah] Talmud Torah

[Micha Berger]

On Tue, Jan 23, 2007 at 10:35:58PM -0000, Rn Chana Luntz wrote:
: I may have missed it, but I haven't seen anybody on here articulate
: precisely why "this is so wrong I am stunned someone should actually
: propose it" and I think it is important that somebody does so.  The
: quote comes from the Mishna in Peah which we recite every morning, and
: indeed, it commences by describing various mitzvos that could be
: classified under the heading of chessed "peah, bikurim" as well as
: gimilus chassadim and ends vetalmud torah keneged kulom.  However, it
: also includes in the list, "iyun tephila" (as well as haknasas kala and
: halvias hameis). 

Aren't you conflating the two lists? The mishnay of "Eilu devarim she'ein
lahem shiur: hapei'ah vehabikurim" ends with talmud Torah. As does
the gemara of "Eilu devarim she'adam ocheil peiroseihem ba'olam hazeh
vehaqeren qayemes lo le'olam haba", but that's the one that includes
iyun tefillah.

Without rishonim, one would think the mishnah in Pei'ah is simply
saying that one can be meqayeim the mitzvah with no minimum. That's not
necessarily the chiyuv of vehagisa bo. But in any case, it's a far cry
from requiring learning above other mitzvos. And one would think that
the gemara is referring to the fact that someone who learns al menas
la'asos can do mitzvos in olam hazeh, thus giving him peiros to consume
in olam hazeh without exhausting the qeren.

The other question is "keneged"? Keneged the other mitzvos she'adam ocheil
peiroseihem, or all other 612? If the latter, how can is be keneged
611 mitzvos and Shabbos, if Shabbos is keneged kulam -- the other 611
plus talmud Torah? Similarly, yishuv EY and tzitzis are also called
keneged kulam. The idiom is either a guzmah, or we need to know in what
particular way are they equal. Torah could be equal the other 612 in a
different way than the other three. But then we need to know what way
to know if it should mean there are times (which times? always?) men
should be choosing Torah over other mitzvos.

And on Thu, Jan 25, 2007 at 12:30:43AM -0000, RnCL wrote:
:> So how do you learn pshat in 'vetalmud torah keneged kulom"?

: Well the halachic sources when quoting the reference phrase it slightly
: differently and add a critical word "shikul", which does rather suggest
: we are talking about heavenly scales rather than earthly doings - eg the
: language of the Shulchan Aruch (Yoreh Deah siman 246 si'if 18) "talmud
: torah shikul kneged kol hamitzvos" ...

But I thought the mishnah said I can't know secharan shel mitzvos, and
thus can't choose a chamurah over a qulah.

:                   And the nose keliim, as well as referring to your
: mishna, also refer back to the gemora in kiddushin 40b in which they
: were asked which is greater talmud torah or ma'asim and while Rabbi
: Tarfon said ma'asim, rabbi Akiva said talmud torah because talmud torah
: brings lyade ma'asim.  Note also that from Megila 3a that in order to
: hear the megila, the cohanim etc are mevatel from the avodah, and in
: order to do the avodah, one is mevatel from talmud torah so as kal
: vchomer one is mevatel talmud torah....

Which implies that keneged kulam in our context is that it have more
peiros for olam hazeh, because it's mevi'ah liydei ma'aseh.

Tir'u baTov!
-mi

-- 
Micha Berger             When you come to a place of darkness,
micha at aishdas.org        you don't chase out the darkness with a broom.
http://www.aishdas.org   You light a candle.
Fax: (270) 514-1507        - R' Yekusiel Halberstam of Klausenberg zt"l