[Avodah] paying in advance

[Micha Berger]

On Mon, January 22, 2007 12:19 pm, celejar wrote:
: The Shulhan Arukh (Siman 227) does indeed rule in accordance with the
: Rosh that less than a sixth is a Safek Issur Torah.

Lo zachisi lehavin how the Rosh and SA expected the market to work. Suppose
two venders sell the same product for slightly different prices. One sold for
above the mean, the other one's customer bought for below the mean. Does this
mean that the pricier vender and the customer of the cheaper one were safeiq
overim?

I understand, as REMT wrote, if the ona'ah is on measurable quantity. The guy
pulled a con job ("con job" being a candidate for translation of ona'ah, tying
it to ona'as devarim). But in general, I don't see how it would work.

It would also depend how one understands the mishnah and the Rambam. How would
the assumption that people are mochalim small differences in price patur one
from returning the money, but not eliminate the issur altogether?


On Tue, January 23, 2007 12:06 pm, Eli Turkel wrote:
: The "purpose" of the halacha is so that the worker need not wait for
: his payment. As the pasuk says he is anxiously waiting for his payment
: for his livelihood. If so it sounds strange that one loses the "aseh"
: by paying in advance which is even better for the worker. Agreed this
: might be a bad deal for the employer but if he volunteers to do
: "lifnin mi-shurat hadin"" why should he lose his aseh?

I think the dilemma is an aspect of one of my pet topics, the nature of doing
a mitzvah bein adam lachaveiro lishmah. Is it lesheim helping the other
person, or lesheim obeying the Borei's mitzvah? (See
<http://www.aishdas.org/asp/2005/09/lishmah-of-interpersonal-mitzvos.shtml>.)

It strikes me as paradoxical to say that by helping the person more, one gets
less sechar. If this were so, then there is no real bein adam lachaveiro. The
mitzvah becomes part of Avodah, maximizing my Avodah, without having Gemilus
Chassadim as a distinct pillar.

Personally, I would pay the worker early, and not try to do clever cheshbonos
to get another chiyuv so that I can fulfil it. I can't see how the qiyum asei
could possibly be worth more than the chesed of helping another.

Tir'u baTov!
-mi

-- 
Micha Berger             Spirituality is like a bird: if you tighten
micha at aishdas.org        your grip on it, it chokes; slacken your grip,
http://www.aishdas.org   and it flies away.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                            - Rav Yisrael Salanter