[Avodah] early bird specials and ribbis

[Michael Kopinsky]

On 2/19/07, Micha Berger <micha at aishdas.org> wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 14, 2007 at 11:11:47AM -0500, Zev Sero wrote:
> : Except that that's clearly not true.  Giving a discounted wage advance
> : to a future employee is only forbidden because it *looks* like a loan,
> : not because it is one...
>
> Avaq LH is assur because it leads to LH.
>
Meheicha teisi?  Maybe it is prohibited because it in itself is slightly
derogatory, even without passing the d'oraisa test of what's considered
LH.

> Is avaq ribis prohibited as ribis, or prohibited as mar'is ayin?

As Zev said, there are different categories.  Mechzei K'ribbis (which he
says is applicable here, I haven't looked up the sources properly to agree
or disagree in this particular case) is different from Avak Ribbis.  The
Rosh writes in Eizehu Neshech (on the sugya of "Ein Sochrim mimenu
b'pachos") that Mechzei K'ribbis is subjective, and thus dependent on the
situation.  If I lend money to a stranger and then he starts letting me
use his stuff, that's a problem. If I lent money to a friend who would
normally let me borrow his stuff, I do not need to stop because of the
loan.

Avak Ribbis does not have these limitations.  Malveh Se'ah b'Se'ah is
always assur.  While other cases do have certain contingencies (such
as certain issues of Agar Natar), they are not as subjective as Mechzei
K'ribbis.

(Disclaimer:  What I wrote here is my inferences from Gemara+Rif+Rosh.  I
have not learned Shulchan Aruch or other poskim on these issues.)