[Avodah] early bird specials and ribbis

[David Riceman]

From: "Zev Sero" <zev at sero.name>

> <me>
>>  an early payment is a loan which lasts until payment is due, and that's 
>> why giving a discount for an early payment is assur.

> <RZS>
> Except that that's clearly not true.  Giving a discounted wage advance
> to a future employee is only forbidden because it *looks* like a loan,
> not because it is one.

You've forgotten the gemara and Rasbam I cited in the previous post.  Wages 
are not fixed.  Hence a discount is meerely a reduction in wages.  Hence it 
merely "looks like" a discounted loan.

>  Giving such an advance to a current employee
> involves exactly the same transaction -- he's not legally entitled to
> the money, he hasn't performed the work for which it's paying, and he
> isn't legally obligated *ever* to perform that work -- and yet it's
> permitted because it doesn't *look* like a loan.

No!!!  "Lo nire'h k'agar natar": it doesn't look like a discounted loan. 
It's the discounting, not the loan, which is ribis.  Giving loans to people 
who need them is a kiyum mitzva.

David Riceman