[Avodah] zman hadloko erev Shabbos and motzoei Shabbos

[Zev Sero]

T613K at aol.com wrote:
> From: Zev Sero <zev at sero.name>
>  > Certainly, it would seem that that is the moment the date changes.  I
>  > don't know what the metzius is during the six-month night. [--REMT]
> 
>  >>The exact opposite.  The sun begins to rise, but never quite makes it
> over the horizon.  Noon is its high point, when it comes closest to
> the horizon, so that is when we must count a notional sunrise and sunset
> and change the date, just as we do in summer at midnight.<< [--RZS]
> 
>  >>>>>
> .
> I can imagine how one would know when the sun has reached its highest 
> point in the sky for the day when the sun is actually in the sky, but 
> how on earth would one know when the sun had come closest to the horizon 
> on a day in winter when the sun never actually peeked over the horizon 
> and was never visible in the sky?!

By looking at the clock?  The sun comes closest to rising at noon (which
is a known number of minutes before or after 12:00, depending on the date
but not ones location).  Or, before clocks were invented, by observing
that it's stopped getting lighter, and started getting darker, which
means the sun has passed its zenith for the day; better still, someone
living in those regions without a clock is likely to develop a sense
for how light he can expect it to get at that time of year, and when
it gets that light he knows that it's noon.

-- 
Zev Sero               Something has gone seriously awry with this Court's
zev at sero.name          interpretation of the Constitution.
                       	                          - Clarence Thomas