[Avodah] zman hadloko erev shabbos and motzei shabbos

[A & C Walters]

>
> To me, the fact that virtually everyone other than RAYW lights their
> Shabbos licht much more than 3 minutes before shkia is strong
> evidence (perhaps even meeting the definition of "proof") that the
> ikkar is *NOT* like Rabenu Tam in this.

First of all, I was talking about chanuka licht not shabbos licht. Shabbos 
licht we can be someich on R' Akiva Eiger that plag is only a siman that the 
lighting is lsheim shabbos and not leatsmoi. Since everyone is lighting at 
that time, it is nikar that it is lekovod shabbos, even though it's before 
plag. Chanuka, however, is different.

I think the reason why people light chanuka licht earlier is simply, that 
they don't know. I recently tried an experement. I asked a dozen or so 
talmudei chachomim, many of whom were rabbis, when is the zman plag lfi R"T. 
I was shocked that only 1 (my shvoger) knew. Most people think that plag is 
much earlier. It is actually a mefurushe biur halocho (Reish Samech Alef)

> (By the way, this "3 minute" shiur presumes that plag is calculated
> as 1.2 fixed 60-minute hours, rather than 1.2 shaos zmanios, or by
> some other calculation.)

To be honest, it makes very little difference if you go shaos zmanious or 
shaos shovious. The calculation is 1/20 of an hour before the shkia 
(according to the B"HL above) Using Sh"Sh, it is 3 minutes. Even if you use 
Sh"Zm, which at least here (in Beis Shemesh) means that every hour is about 
66 minutes (actually less) then a 20th is still only 3mins and 20secs. So 
the variation is about 2-4 minutes before the shkia.


> But for those to whom his is not the ikkar opinion, 2.5
> minutes is a very dangerous policy......... can easily create variations 
> which will put the candle
> lighting to actually be after shkia.

Even after shkia is only a sfek sfaika (see RMF and ROY) so to be choshesh 
geometric pressure etc. which MAY possibly (but probably not) lead to an 
early shkia, is something that one does not need to worry about.

AYW

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