[Avodah] Kiddush Levanah on Motzoei Yom Kippur

[Zev Sero]

Prof. Levine wrote:
> At 03:38 PM 10/03/2006, you wrote:

>> Why can't they make their own havdalah?  Whether women are obligated
>> in havdalah or not, mimah nafshach they are yotze.  Or are you
>> concerned about bracha levatalah, if it should turn out that they
>> are not obligated?

> Yes, this is a factor, the question of a woman making the brocha.

But does a bracha count as levatalah in such a circumstance?
Even when it is clear lechol hadeot that women are exempt from a
mitzvah, the practise of almost all Ashkenazim is that if they do
keep the mitzvah they say the bracha, and it's not levatalah.
How much more so in the case of havdalah, where perhaps they're
actually obligated min hadin, and therefore *all* women keep it.
Even if galuy klapei shmaya that the halacha is that women are
exempt from havdalah, let their universal custom of keeping it
be no worse than their common but not universal custom of shaking
the lulav, or counting the omer, or saying shema in the course of
davening shacharit, in all of which cases they say the appropriate
brachot (according to almost all Ashkenazim).


>> At whose expense?  If the wife is at shul, and so is the husband,
>> then they will go home together, at a time and pace that is mutually
>> convenient.  And surely whoever is at home with the kids can feed them.
> 
> At the husband's expense. If the wife stays in shul to daven Maariv, 
> then they will have to wait longer when he gets home until the food is 
> heated up. On the other hand, if the wife goes home right after shofar 
> blowing, then she can get a head start on getting the meal ready to be 
> served.

Surely she is just as hungry as he is, and her staying for maariv or
going home is a matter for mutual agreement.  And why must he have
warm food to break his fast?  Can't he (actually they) first have cold
drinks while the food is warming up?  In any case, why is his having
to wait a few minutes longer for hot food (though no longer than she
waits) more important than whatever hanaah she gets from staying for
maariv (and walking home with him instead of alone)?  What is she,
his maid?

I assume that real-life couples actually discuss things like this,
and arrive at mutually acceptable arrangements, which won't be the
same for each; all we can discuss here is an abstract couple, with
preferences common to most people.  If I see a woman in shul after
neilah, either davening maariv or just waiting for her husband,
I don't assume that he really wants her to go home, and she's being
inconsiderate by staying; I assume that this is what they've both
decided to do, for reasons that seem good to them.  (Though actually
in my specific case I don't have to assume anything, because the
whole issue doesn't arise, as I mentioned.)



> As far as feeding the kids, if there is a non-Jewish baby sitter at 
> home, then feeding the kids can involve all sorts of problems.

Surely the babysitter has access to some food she can give the kids,
otherwise what is she meant to do if they're hungry.  Not that the
whole issue is particularly relevant here - any kid old enough to
be fasting the whole day is probably in shul with the parents,
unless s/he's at home babysitting, in which case s/he can make
havdalah and eat.



>> PS: My shul always has a "havdalah" after maariv, so everyone can
>> stay for maariv, nobody has to go home hungry, and kiddush levana
>> can be said besimcha, *after* breaking the fast.

> There was a time when all shuls made Havdalah after all Shabbosim
> and Yomim Tovim. This is no longer the case in many places.  One
> person wrote to me that his shul made Havdalah for everybody and
> then served some snacks and drinks to all. This to me avoids all
> concerns.

Yes, that's what I meant by a "havdalah".  It would be silly to call
it a kiddush.


-- 
Zev Sero               Something has gone seriously awry with this Court's
zev at sero.name          interpretation of the Constitution.
                       	                          - Clarence Thomas