[Avodah] zman hadloko erev shabbos and motzei shabbos

[Danny Schoemann]

R' A & C Walters wrote:
>There is much dispute as to when is the correct time to light Chanuke licht
Friday evening and Mot"Sh.

Not really. There's a single line siman (679) - so short it doesn't
even have a heading - that says you light before candle-lighting. The
RMO adds that we make the brocho even though it's still broad day
light (Od hayom Godol).

>Mot"Sh is the smaller of the problems, because we
>can be someich on the RaM"A and can light later than the zman.

I don't get it. Chazal "invented" this mitzva and were fully aware of
the Shabbos issues. There's not a chance that they requested us to go
anywhere near chillul Shabbas to light Chanuka candles.

Let's think for a moment. From a Torah POV:
- We didn't blow shofar this year on RH because of a remote suspicion
that some illiterate fellow may go to a Rov with his shofar in a place
w/o an Eruv.

- We didn't  shake lulav this year for a similar reason.

Yet we are expected to light 8 candles this year 2.5 minutes before
shki'a!?!?! Whatever happened to Tosefes Shabbos? Or Chilul Shabbos?

>The Brisker Rov ztvk"l claims that the zman hadloko mot"sh is different to
> the rest of the week
Um, it's the SA actually. 681:1. But even if it weren't written, it's
obvious that Chazal wouldn't make a mitzva that's impossible to do.

The part about getting his daughter to light the match I don't
believe. Is his Gan Eden more precious than hers?

>I remember one year walking to Mincha one shabbos Chanuka and looking
> at the freshly lit menoyros as I passed)

I well be live that.  Since we daven maariv on Mot"Sh-Chanuka 18
minutes after sunset, we are ready to light before (the bare minimum
35 minute) Mot"Sh. I often have to stop the Shamash from messing with
the candles before this time.

>I personally <snip> even if it were to be a mistake in the
luach/clock, there is
> still a Sf"Sf which one could be somech on, bedieved.

I personally finish lighting all our Chanuka candles before the 40
minute siren, so that my wife can light at the siren. I start a few
minutes after plag.

I am very makpid that we always light Shabbos candles at the siren
because if you miss that time you run into Chillul Shabbos. I know so
many people who jump into the shower after the siren and leave other
work till after the siren. Before you know it you're mechallel Shabbos
- and I've seen it over and over again. Why? Because the kids grow up
knowing that the siren is meaningless and in their home Shabbos starts
after the shower.
In my house Shabbos starts with candle lighting at the siren. We don't
answer the phone thereafter, we don't mess with the blech and we do
any other melocho. It's now Shabbos. This way, even if in an emergency
we run late by 2-3 minutes we are nowhere near trouble.

It's very nice to be machmir in all shitos of Chanuka candles, however
Shabbos takes precedence - with all it's chumros. I guarantee that if
you do it my way you won't get any gehinom for it, even if all goes
wrong and your clock is slow, the luach is off and the wicks give you
trouble.

A freilichen chanuke

- Danny