[Aspaqlaria] Comments for Aspaqlaria

Thu Nov 2 05:39:51 PST 2006

Comments for Aspaqlaria

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Comment on The Unobservable, the Unobserved, and the Observed by Jacob Farkas

Posted: 02 Nov 2006 06:01 AM CST
http://www.aishdas.org/asp/2006/10/the-unobservable-the-unobserved-and-the-observed.shtml#comment-97

I am not reading the gemara as science. I suggested that had science been available in the times of Gemara the Gemara would have read differently.

Hazal make a Drashah from the Pasuq - Hasheretz Hashoreitz al haaretz - that it excludes that which never reached the soil. Hazal took a cue from the Pasuq, knowing (based on their information) that there were two types of Sheratzim, those that were from the environment in large, and those that were born inside of other objects, that when the Torah wrote Al Haaretz it was specific in the exclusion of the latter. Such a Drashah, a Miut, could only exist in conjunction with the belief that there are two seperate categories.

To establish parameters is one thing, as in the rule of nirah layin, that a bug needs to be visible to the naked eye to be considered Halakhicly relevant. But this may have another reasoning, other than Halakhah ignoring objective existence, rather we invoke Shelo Nit'nah Torah lmalakhei haShareis, that the Torah is to be experienced by people, and so application of the law has to be consistent with human experience.

The Torah may thus never REQUIRE that one use tools or methods that are beyond average human capacity. However, would this necessarily mean that Halakhah itself is bound by these limitations, that Hazal would apply a Miut in a Pasuq for a category that doesnt really exist, but is only perceived to be so? I would think not.

Furthermore, while the Torah does not expect a person to use methods that are beyond average human capacity, it may not ignore the findings of such methods. By insisting that Halakhah itself needs to be in the boundaries of the phenomenological universe, you are de facto excluding the possibility of applying any evidence or information gleaned from the natural universe.

I agree that Qiyum HaMitzvos should be limited to human parameters, but establishing facts in Halakhah, facts that may affect Qiyum HaMitzvos, Halakhah should use every tool available to establish truth, particularly in an era where average humans rely on everyday science in flight, surgery, hurricane/earthquake warnings, GPS, Radio, etc. Should Halakhah ignore these in todays era, it wouldnt be addressing the current human condition. 

Should we find error in Hazal with todays science, as with the Drashah of Al Haaretz, we need to resolve the matter within our legal framework, and that favors the precedent. Should there be sufficient need and rabinnic will to overturn precedent, there is no reason that they shouldnt. Emunah in the words of Hazal is not harmed by the fact that they used faulty information. If anything, the fact that they trusted science enough to make a Drashah in a Pasuq, should be a lesson in courage of conviction for all future Halakhic decisors.

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Comment on Qedushah by Aspaqlaria  Blog Archive  Al Netilas Yadayim

Posted: 01 Nov 2006 02:43 PM CST
http://www.aishdas.org/asp/2005/05/qedushah.shtml#comment-96

[] To obtain holiness []

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Comment on Asher Yatzer by Aspaqlaria  Blog Archive  Birchos haTorah

Posted: 01 Nov 2006 02:43 PM CST
http://www.aishdas.org/asp/2006/06/asher-yatzer.shtml#comment-95

[]         Birchos haTorah June 15th, 2006 5:44 am   This weeks shiur (audio recording) concludes a series on aspectsof the soul. With Asher Yatzar we looked at mans ability to exist in and relate to the physical world. This is followed by E-lokai Neshamah, and our connection to heaven and mans higher calling. Now we look at the universe we hold within our heads, our ability to change and grow, and become better at existence on all three planes. []

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Comment on Birkhas Ahavah by Aspaqlaria  Blog Archive  Shema Yisrael

Posted: 01 Nov 2006 02:25 PM CST
http://www.aishdas.org/asp/2006/10/birkhas-ahavah_20.shtml#comment-94

[] In this weeks shiur we concluded Birkhas Ahavah and started Shema with the origin of Kel Melekh Neeman and some thoughts on its first sentence. Some of the topics discussed: []

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Comment on  The rest is commentary by Aspaqlaria  Blog Archive  Ethics and Morality

Posted: 01 Nov 2006 11:00 AM CST
http://www.aishdas.org/asp/2006/07/rest-is-commentary.shtml#comment-93

[] Where does this moral drive come from? Freud saw choice as being between the Id, the desires with which we are born, and the Super-Ego, recordings of all the rules our parents and society have placed upon us. But in Jewish thought, there is a soul. Its not only repression of natural desire to conform to a higher calling, its also the satisfaction of an equally innate human need, the desires of the soul. Not believing in it doesnt mean one cant hear its call. Perhaps this ties in to the answer Hillel gave one of the people who approached him to convert. In the post  the Rest is Commentary I discuss his answer to the impatient convert (which again I recommend reading in full): What you hate, do not do to your peer: that is the whole Torah, the rest is the commentary. Go and learn it. []

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Comment on The Unobservable, the Unobserved, and the Observed by micha

Posted: 01 Nov 2006 08:41 AM CST
http://www.aishdas.org/asp/2006/10/the-unobservable-the-unobserved-and-the-observed.shtml#comment-92

I dont think you took my chidush as far as I intended it to go.

Im suggesting that halakhah is unconcerned with what is scientifically out there. I would agree that chazal were presumably convinced that these bugs reproduced abiogenetically, that being the best science of the day. But they never claimed that was the basis of the halakhah, or even made a scientific claim in support of the pesaq. When chazal say that  the maggots were born of the meat they werent trying to describe the biology, but how we experience maggots arising. We dont experience any piryah verivyah in their life cycle, and thats all chazal is saying.

Your question only arises because youre reading the words of the gemara as a science text. Im suggesting its not.

I admit there is a complication in that the classical thinker never expected there to be a divergence between the observed and whats really out-there. A world of invisible fields and forces, of microscopic biology, etc But thats not to say they necessarily made their statements on both levels.

Particularly since, as in my previous post, I feel there is both theological and linguistic reasons to believe halakhah should not be concerned with things that make little impression on us on a gut level.

As for the use of new forms of evidence, thats subject to machloqes. Were discussing shitos about the usability of DNA evidence on Avodah right now, in fact. See the threads Extablishing Mamzerut and DNA testing and related offshoots.

But the whole subject of material evidence seems not to be discussed much in the gemara, as far as I can tell.

-mi

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