[Avodah] halacha and history

[Lisa Liel via Avodah]

On 12/12/2015 7:00 PM, Eli Turkel via Avodah wrote:
> I saw several things over shabbat that seem to go against known history
>
> 1) *Question:* Who was the Kohen Gadol at the time of 
> Chanukah--Mattisyahu--or his father Yochanan
> *Answer:*The Sefer /Shalal Rav/ (p. 147-148) presents a Machlokes 
> Rishonim on this very point.
>
> Obviously neither were kohen gadol at the time of chanukah. Josephus 
> describes the various successions of the kohen gadol  eg alcimus etc. 
> In fact Mattisyahu lived in Modiin and not in Jerusalem. It is not 
> clear who Yochanan is but in any case lived before the story of 
> Chanukah. Some claim that he is the Yochanan who lived 80 years and 
> became a sadducee which would make the story even more amazing, In 
> fact it is not clear that the Maccabees came from the "right" branch 
> of priests to be kohen gadol

Chazal didn't have any problem condemning him for taking both the kehuna 
and the melucha.  I doubt they would have been silent had they not come 
from the right branch of priests to be kohen gadol.

>
> 2)  From the daf yomi at the beginning of Gittin there arises the 
> question of the boundaries of Israel.  Tahbetz (3:4) claims that Ezra 
> conquered (nichbash) the Golan  while it is not clear if the portion 
> of Jordan was conquered by Ezra,
>
> However it is clear that Ezra (or Nechemia) had no army to conquer 
> anyone. They had enough trouble with their immediate neighbors and 
> succeeded only because of Nechemia's connection to the Persian kings. 
> Persia would obviously not allow the Jews to conquer a far away land. 
> It is fairly clear that at the time of Ezra/Nechemia the Jews lived in 
> the immediate vicinity of Jerusalem.

Nichbash needn't mean conquered militarily.  Taken over with permission 
of the Persian emperor would suffice.

Lisa