[Avodah] Ahab

[Micha Berger via Avodah]

On Tue, Dec 01, 2015 at 08:39:22PM +0200, Ben Waxman via Avodah wrote:
: Whatever Yosef and Moshe did, that wasn't good enough for Yitzhaq
: and Yaacov, who dafka had to marry family. Locals were out...

Because of the middos ra'os of Kenaan, not because of Jewishness.

See Rashi on Bereishis 26:35. Esav's marrying two Chiti women caused moras
ruach for his parents because "all their actions were to anger and sadden"
others, and (in a second comment, quoting BR) "that they worshipped AZ".

Nothing about his marrying out of the faith. And this was before Yitzchaq
got Avraham's berakhah; had Esav inherited "Jewishness", he hadn't lost
it yet.

And as I said earlier in this thread... I understand that one of the
reasons why someone who eats gid hanasheh fried in cheilev is chayav
twice is because ein issur chal al issur doesn't apply to an issur
hakolel. The gid hanasheh is a broader issur because it once included
non-Jews.

We also learn the ritual steps of geirus from preparing for maamad
Har Sinai because that is when our ancestors became "Jewish".

The gemara actually holds lehalakhah that the avos weren't Jewish.

And what do we mean by "Jewish" anyway? Obviously we do not mean
the etymologically correct translation -- members of the community
of believers of the religion of the descendents of Malkhus Yehudah.
No Malkhus Yehudah yet.

Similarly we aren't using it to refer to members of the berisim of Sinai
or Arvos Moav.

And as I just mentioned, Beris Avos was handed to someone, not inherited.

I don't see any possible referant.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Like a bird, man can reach undreamed-of
micha at aishdas.org        heights as long as he works his wings.
http://www.aishdas.org   But if he relaxes them for but one minute,
Fax: (270) 514-1507      he plummets downward.   - Rav Yisrael Salanter