[Avodah] A Simple Yes or No Question

[Lisa Liel via Avodah]

On 11/27/2015 6:07 PM, Rich, Joel via Avodah wrote:
>>> =======================================
>>> For clarification purposes - would someone who eats treif because a gun is put to their head be considered "sinning"?  What about one who has Tourette's and continually curses?
>> No, and no.  In the first place, one who eats treyf because a gun is put to their head is *obligated* to do so.  One who has Tourettes would presumably have a din of oness.
>>
>> Lisa
>>

> Which solves the problem but yields a slippery slope. A pure determinist would go so far as to say that no one who commits a crime should be considered blameworthy as they were in essence an onnes.  Society may need to protect themselves but the offender is not to be blamed for his actions.

I think that sort of determinism is inherently silly.  I make my own 
choices, as do they.  I realize that there are people who abuse language 
in this way, but I think the reality is clear.  *Only* if a person is 
literally unable to avoid an action can the action be considered 
entirely involuntary.  People often say "I had no choice".  But a bad 
choice is still a choice.  If I'm hanging by my fingers from the edge of 
a tall building, fighting to hang on is my *choice*.  Even though the 
alternative is certain death, it's still my choice.

> Somewhere in between are those who would say that some schizophrenics and other forms of mental illness,    homosexuals etc. are all oness to the extent that they cannot control their biological Destinies.

In some of those cases, people literally have no control over their 
actions.  While I obviously object to the implication that homosexuality 
is a mental illness, I also think the only place where oness can 
possibly enter into the issue is a situation where a gay man literally 
*cannot* function sexually with a woman.  In such a case, I'd say that 
oness would exempt them from marrying a woman, but it wouldn't create a 
heter for anything else.  That said, oness isn't the only mechanism 
involved here.  Halakha does recognize the idea of psychological harm.

Lisa