[Avodah] Mitzvah Kiyumit

[Zev Sero via Avodah]

On 10/28/2015 01:06 PM, Micha Berger wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 11:45:44AM -0400, Zev Sero wrote:
> : On 10/28/2015 10:16 AM, Micha Berger via Avodah wrote:
> :> WRT birkhos hamitzvah, we say berakhos einum me'aqvos. So, the idea that
> :> he needs the berakhah as part of the matir is not a function of it being
> :> a birkhas hamitzah; and in fact argues that Rashi holds it is NOT one.
>
> : Brachos einan me`akvos is bediavad...
>
> Yes, so if this were a birkhas hamitzvah, relations would be mutar
> bedi'eved if the berakhah were omitted.

That makes no sense.   This is the bracha on kiddushin, which is
*not* matir relations, but quite the contrary.   And indeed, if
it is omitted the kiddushin are still tofsin, exactly as one would
expect.


> This isn't my point, it's the Ritva's.

Reference, please.  I can't understand how the Ritva could make such
a point.


> (Yes, who then says the iqar berakhah being discussed in Kesuvos is
> /after/ nisu'in, not before.)

We say them before the yichud, which is our version of chuppah.


-- 
Zev Sero               All around myself I will wave the green willow
zev at sero.name          The myrtle and the palm and the citron for a week
                And if anyone should ask me the reason why I'm doing that
                I'll say "It's a Jewish thing; if you have a few minutes
                I'll explain it to you".