[Avodah] Ben Noach legal systems (was: Abortion is not Murder?)

[Micha Berger]

On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 02:19:02PM +0100, Chana Luntz wrote:
: Sorry, I think I misunderstood your passage (at the top).  It seemed to me
: that RYK was postulating something along the lines of your 1. Below.  Then
: you came and added to the question with you "I would split this question
: further".  As I understood your further split, it was an attempt to separate
: the azhara for the sheva mitzvos from the penalty - and that is why I said
: that your split was not tenable, as it was discussed in the gemora, and, it
: seemed to me, rejected.

Nope, nothing that complicated.

Going back to what I wrote later in that post, as explanation:
:> 1- to enforce the 7MBN, and RYBA is [talking] about non-Jewish courts having
:>    license for capital punishment);

:> 2- to enforce the 7MBN *and* implement the chiyhuv misah (except in normal
:>    cases of geneivaah); or

:> 3- to create their own laws as necessary for a safe society, and RYBA is
:>    talking about one Jewish dayan not the 7th mitzvah.

:>    In this 3rd position, the resulting courts could be a fulfillment of
:>    this particular mitzvah even if they didn't address those of the 7
:>    mitzvos which are BALM (AZ and birkhas hasheim). And it's possible
:>    this particular mitzvah wouldn't need to include legally enforcing
:>    border cases like euthenasia or abortion.

First split (discussed by RYK): The role of Noachide courts (mitzvah #7)
is either
    i- to enforce the 7MBN (options 1 & 2, above), or
    ii- to create their own laws as necessary for a safe society (option 3)

If we say (i), then I was suggesting a possible further split. That
in enforcing the 7MBN the Noachide court is either
    a- permitted to punish as they deem appropriate (option 1), or
    b- obligated to mete out capital punishment (option 2).

...
:> Rather, it could well be about how our courts should be judging them. 

: Does this not assumes that we are expected to take on the role of world's
: policeman? ...

Or, that we are expected to police, judge and punish the Benei Noach
who live within our own borders, where peace is kept by Benei Yisrael's
batei din. And that the subject of punishment for violating one of the
other 6 Benei Noach are only lemaaseh in that case.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Life is a stage and we are the actors,
micha at aishdas.org        but only some of us have the script.
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