[Avodah] How many Korban Pesachs could be sacrificed in 1 day

[Chana Luntz]

From: Marty Bluke  <marty.bluke at gmail.com> wrote:

>>Recently I learned Pesachim 64b  (daf yomi) where the Gemara states 
>>that King Agrippas wanted to take a census  so he had the Cohanim count
the number of Korban Pesachs that were brought  and it came out to 1.2
million korbanos, 12 million people (10 to a  >>korban)....


>>1. The Korban Pesach is only brought in the afternoon of  the 14th of
Nisan ...That means that they had to sacrifice over 340,000  korbanos an
hour, over 5700 a minute and over 95 a second. >...

>>2. How could they possibly fit all of the people and animals in the
Azara?...The Beis Hamikdash was simply not that big...
 
>>....given the dimensions of the Mishkan and the Beis Hamikdash  and the
number of people, how did everyone ever bring a korban pesach? The  numbers
just don't work. ...

 >>>>
 
And RTK responded:

>I asked my brother, R' Shabsi Bulman, that question, and here is his
reply:
 

>"EVEN IF ONLY ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND PEOPLE WERE OLEH LAREGEL THE LOGISTICS  
>OF THEIR STAY WOULD BE NEAR IMPOSSIBLE. (ASK ANYONE WHO HAS BEEN TO A MAJOR

>LEVAYA.) IT IS OVERWHELMINGLY CLEAR THAT EVERYTHING ABOUT ALIYA LAREGEL IS

>MAASEH NISSIM FROM BEGINNING TO END. GMAR CHASIMA TOVA."
 
>That is similar to what REMT wrote here on Avodah:  "it is still  
>impossible without nissim."

The problem I have with this suggestion is that on this very daf, indeed,
just a few lines above, there is the famous machlokus between Rava and Abaye
on ... are we allowed to rely on nissim.

Here is the text of the gemora there in Pesachim 64b:
אביי אמר: ננעלו תנן, רבא אמר: נועלין תנן. מאי בינייהו? איכא בינייהו למסמך
אניסא. אביי אמר: ננעלו תנן, כמה דעיילו מעלו - וסמכינן אניסא. רבא אמר: נועלין
תנן, ולא סמכינן אניסא
  
"Abaye said: it was taught that it was closed [referring to the gates of the
azarah] , Rava said, that they closed it. What is between them? This is
between them: to rely on a miracle.  Abaye who says that it was closed, like
it was closed by itself and they relied on a miracle [to ensure there were
two other groups].  Rava says they closed it, and we do not rely on a
miracle. ..."
 
If the entirety of the aliya laregal and particularly the korban pesach was
ma'aseh nissim from beginning to end, then Rava's position is rendered
untenable - nobody went into the Azarah for pesach without relying on
countless miracles, so what is the closing of a door or allowing it to be
closed in the grand scheme of things?  

And generally machlokus Abaye and Rava we posken like Rava - so where does
that leave us halacha l'ma'seh?

I am somewhat reluctant to make this suggestion, because I do agree that the
most obvious pshat of the gemora is as R' Marty Bluke has given it, and this
is a stretch, but I wonder whether you could read this section so that when
it says that "he took a kidney from each one" is actually referring to while
initially taking a kidney not from each korban pesach, but against each one
who was counted against that korban pesach - as in, if there were ten people
counted for this pesach, he initially took the kidney, exchanged it for ten
tokens, and these ten tokens when then also called kidneys, because that is
what they were in exchange for.  Obviously the next portion of the gemora
did not understand it that way initially, as it clearly thought that he took
the actual kidneys, which is why it had a huge problem with this action
because the kidneys are needed to be burnt on the misbeach - but given the
gemora's resolution that in fact he only took the kidney from the korban
pesach for a moment until he was given some sort of token in exchange (which
allowed the korban pesach kidney to then be burnt on the mizbeach as
required), it could be that he took the kidney, and then gave it back in
exchange for some tokens that illustrated the numbers of people counted on
that korban, and those tokens were then themselves deemed (and called)
"kidneys" - and it is to those that the shishim ribui zugei kilos refers.
That would cut the numbers in the Azarah to at least a tenth of RMB's
calculation - which would still make for serious numbers,  but presumably
not enough to make Rava's position bizarre.

>Toby Katz

Gmar Chatima Tova

Chana